Colin McKenzie wrote:

If tube tunnels were dug between West Ealing and just east of
Ealing Broadway, it would free up surface capacity at Ealing
Broadway station for the desperately-needed rebuilding.

Indeed. Ealing Broadway is an excellent example of the brutalist
architectural paradigm that gave us London Euston...


There are endless options, and I think a wholesale reorganisation
of services might be beneficial, because
- the area needs north-south rail services

Roll on the Park Royal interchange...

- the line parallel to the Central line is ridiculously under-used

Because there's no capacity at Paddington. Considering that 14tph is
going to terminate at Paddington, perhaps it would be sensible to see
if electrifying Old Oak West - North Acton - Park Royal and running
6tph up there to interchange with the Picc/Central at PR might be
useful.

It would probably empty North Acton to PR and Ealing Common to PR, but
the branches beyond there would get much busier; if the buses could be
rejigged, the effects could get even better.

- passengers beyond Northolt are not best served by an all-stations
service

There's always the option of electrifying all the way to West Ruislip
and interchanging with Chiltern - though that would probably decimate
the Ruislip branch of the Central.

A better option would be to find a spare bit of brownfield land next to
the old GW line and building a largish carpark on it, with good access
from the A40. Then you could extend more tph from Paddington to the new
parkway station and abstract traffic off of the A40.

Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service to
Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that wasted
tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

TheOneKEA wrote:
Colin McKenzie wrote:

If tube tunnels were dug between West Ealing and just east of
Ealing Broadway, it would free up surface capacity at Ealing
Broadway station for the desperately-needed rebuilding.

Indeed. Ealing Broadway is an excellent example of the brutalist
architectural paradigm that gave us London Euston...

There are endless options, and I think a wholesale reorganisation
of services might be beneficial, because
- the area needs north-south rail services

Roll on the Park Royal interchange...

Does anyone have news about that? I don't even have an estimated
completion date.

- the line parallel to the Central line is ridiculously under-used

Because there's no capacity at Paddington. Considering that 14tph is
going to terminate at Paddington, perhaps it would be sensible to see
if electrifying Old Oak West - North Acton - Park Royal and running
6tph up there to interchange with the Picc/Central at PR might be
useful.

It would probably empty North Acton to PR and Ealing Common to PR, but
the branches beyond there would get much busier; if the buses could be
rejigged, the effects could get even better.

A Park Royal bus/train/tube interchange with some sort of intermediate
mode link to Willesden Junction and to Ealing to join the West London
Tram. In any case, there should be high quality links to a Crossrail
station to attract people from the west who might otherwise drive. Acton
Main Line would be a good candidate.

- passengers beyond Northolt are not best served by an all-stations
service


There's always the option of electrifying all the way to West Ruislip
and interchanging with Chiltern - though that would probably decimate
the Ruislip branch of the Central.

A better option would be to find a spare bit of brownfield land next to
the old GW line and building a largish carpark on it, with good access
from the A40. Then you could extend more tph from Paddington to the new
parkway station and abstract traffic off of the A40.

Ooh, the old park-and-ride problem. I think you'd actually generate
quite a bit of traffic on the A40 to the west as people switch from the
current stations to the parkway one. A parkway station would be better
off further out.

Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service to
Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that wasted
tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

Presumably there isn't the traffic for it, otherwise they would have
suggested it.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

Does anyone have news about that? I don't even have an estimated
completion date.

I haven't heard a thing about it lately. I suspect that it will roll
over and sink like the BLE proposals for Camberwell...


A Park Royal bus/train/tube interchange with some sort of
intermediate mode link to Willesden Junction and to Ealing to join
the West London Tram. In any case, there should be high quality
links to a Crossrail station to attract people from the west who
might otherwise drive. Acton Main Line would be a good candidate.

Are you talking about journeys off of the GWML onto the GW link line?


Ooh, the old park-and-ride problem. I think you'd actually generate
quite a bit of traffic on the A40 to the west as people switch from
the current stations to the parkway one. A parkway station would be
better off further out.

How about a four-tracked terminal station with an island platform where
the GW/GC crosses the M25? There's almost nothing along that part of
the corridor, so there'd be plenty of space for a park&ride.

And the best part is that Chiltern, Crossrail and the Central Line
would all benefit - Crossrail carries the heavy commuter traffic into
the city, Chiltern carries traffic from local areas along the M25 to
areas north, and people living on the upper part of the Central Line
can interchange to both and reach the parkway station.

The only issue is that Chiltern might want a piece of that commuter pie
as well...


Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service
to Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that
wasted tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

Presumably there isn't the traffic for it, otherwise they would have
suggested it.

If the through service is cut back to West Ealing, people will probably
switch to the Central Line anyway.

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...

How about a four-tracked terminal station with an island platform where
the GW/GC crosses the M25? There's almost nothing along that part of
the corridor, so there'd be plenty of space for a park&ride.

Denham Golf Club Parkway? Get rid of a station that virtually nobody uses
and replace it with a *useful* facility! Actually, if you positioned the new
station between the M25 and Denham itself you might be able to replace
Denham Golf Club and Denham itself, in one fell swoop. It surprises me that
the normally forward-thinking Chiltern have never proposed such a thing. It
would also lighten the load on Gerrards Cross, which is getting very busy
now.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:08:27 GMT, Jack Taylor wrote:

Denham Golf Club Parkway? Get rid of a station that virtually nobody uses
and replace it with a *useful* facility! Actually, if you positioned the new
station between the M25 and Denham itself you might be able to replace
Denham Golf Club and Denham itself, in one fell swoop. It surprises me that
the normally forward-thinking Chiltern have never proposed such a thing. It
would also lighten the load on Gerrards Cross, which is getting very busy
now.

Just tarmac over the golf course, then the station doesn't need to
move, and there'll be plenty of space for cars. ;-)

--
My most recent pictu
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p11858315.html
(170 504 passing Slindon at speed on 31 Jan 2005)

Jack Taylor wrote:

Denham Golf Club Parkway? Get rid of a station that virtually nobody
uses and replace it with a *useful* facility! Actually, if you
positioned the new station between the M25 and Denham itself you
might be able to replace Denham Golf Club and Denham itself, in one
fell swoop. It surprises me that the normally forward-thinking
Chiltern have never proposed such a thing. It would also lighten the
load on Gerrards Cross, which is getting very busy now.

How good is road access from the M25 corridor to Denham? If it's no
good or regularly jammed, then siting the parking lot at Denham Golf
Club would probably be a poor move.

To be honest, I suspect that Chiltern have adopted a wait-and-see
attitude about park&ride on the GW/GC route; if/when they complete the
realignment at Beaconsfield and the additional signalling north of High
Wycombe, they may experience a "sparks effect" and start thinking about
such improvements - especially if it happens to link in with Crossrail
and increase the chances of people using their trains to reach the
Crossrail services.

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...

How good is road access from the M25 corridor to Denham? If it's no
good or regularly jammed, then siting the parking lot at Denham Golf
Club would probably be a poor move.

Actually I was getting my geography a bit confused there, so disregard the
comments abount Denham itself! DGC is actually south of the M25, which runs
between DGC and GX (for some reason I was having a mental aberration and
thinking that it was between Denham and DGC). There is, however, a
considerable amount of spare land in the area. DGC actually lies very close
to the A40/A413 junction and just up the M25 from junction 1a, the M25/M40
interchange, so a spur from that junction ought to be possible, assuming
that the land can be acquired. A DGC Parkway would not necesssarily have to
be exactly on the existing site, it could move further from the Golf Club
and closer to the M25 to facilitate a Parkway-style station, serving traffic
from the M25, M40, A40 and A413, if properly planned.

In article ,
Jack Taylor wrote:

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...

How good is road access from the M25 corridor to Denham? If it's no
good or regularly jammed, then siting the parking lot at Denham Golf
Club would probably be a poor move.

Actually I was getting my geography a bit confused there, so disregard
the comments abount Denham itself! DGC is actually south of the M25,
which runs between DGC and GX (for some reason I was having a mental
aberration and thinking that it was between Denham and DGC). There is,
however, a considerable amount of spare land in the area. DGC actually
lies very close to the A40/A413 junction and just up the M25 from
junction 1a, the M25/M40 interchange, so a spur from that junction ought
to be possible, assuming that the land can be acquired. A DGC Parkway
would not necesssarily have to be exactly on the existing site, it could
move further from the Golf Club and closer to the M25 to facilitate a
Parkway-style station, serving traffic from the M25, M40, A40 and A413,
if properly planned.


The record for previous initiatives of this kind is not very encouraging.
There were similar proposals many years ago for a park and ride at Iver on
the GWML which is practically adjacent to the M25 and has lots of unused
land adjacent to the station. I believe the DfT objected because it would
require a new junction on the M25, and it would also generate more traffic
on nearby motorways rather than relieving them.

David

TheOneKEA wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Does anyone have news about that? I don't even have an estimated
completion date.


I haven't heard a thing about it lately. I suspect that it will roll
over and sink like the BLE proposals for Camberwell...

Although the redevelopment plans at Elephant and Castle have been
designed so as not to impede any Bakerloo line extension.

A Park Royal bus/train/tube interchange with some sort of
intermediate mode link to Willesden Junction and to Ealing to join
the West London Tram. In any case, there should be high quality
links to a Crossrail station to attract people from the west who
might otherwise drive. Acton Main Line would be a good candidate.

Are you talking about journeys off of the GWML onto the GW link line?

I actually meant there should at least be frequent and fast bus links
between the GWML/Crossrail (e.g. Acton ML) and the Park Royal estate. A
Crossrail branch up the joint line would be an extra step forward but
doesn't really help with access from the west to Park Royal; the
majority of workers at Park Royal currently drive, and I suspect most of
them come from the west.

Ooh, the old park-and-ride problem. I think you'd actually generate
quite a bit of traffic on the A40 to the west as people switch from
the current stations to the parkway one. A parkway station would be
better off further out.


How about a four-tracked terminal station with an island platform where
the GW/GC crosses the M25? There's almost nothing along that part of
the corridor, so there'd be plenty of space for a park&ride.

The "nothing" is all Green Belt land...

And the best part is that Chiltern, Crossrail and the Central Line
would all benefit - Crossrail carries the heavy commuter traffic into
the city, Chiltern carries traffic from local areas along the M25 to
areas north, and people living on the upper part of the Central Line
can interchange to both and reach the parkway station.

The only issue is that Chiltern might want a piece of that commuter pie
as well...

Chiltern would be worried about traffic being abstracted from them if
such a station were built. A lot of people in Chiltern's catchment drive
to a local station at the moment; with a Crossrail P+R they probably
would drive to that instead.

I doubt that a lot of traffic to points north would be generated.
Chances are, if someone is already in their car on the motorway, they
will use it all the way, especially as the M40 serves almost all the
areas that Chiltern does.

Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service
to Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that
wasted tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

Presumably there isn't the traffic for it, otherwise they would have
suggested it.


If the through service is cut back to West Ealing, people will probably
switch to the Central Line anyway.

I should imagine that everyone who could already switch to the Central
line has already done so. The only remaining traffic is probably to
Ealing Broadway or to the local area around Paddington.

Would hypothetical Crossrail trains to Greenford need to cross eastbound
trains from Heathrow & Maidenhead at grade? That could be a disbenefit
to other Crossrail services.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

This is interesting. But let me add a few points.

1. Turning crossrail trains back @ Paddington is just crazy when there
is a lack of capacity in the mainline station.

2. Better for now just to electrify one mainline, i.e. Paddington to
Maidenhead.

3. We are stuck with the Central Line to West Ruislip because of the
depot.

So, better drop the Central Line into a tunnel for the Ealing Broadway
to West Ealing Stretch. Have the Central Line take over the Greenford
Loop.

Then extend the instead of turning back crossrail trains at Paddington,
reverse them from new platforms at Ealing. These platforms would
replace the Central Line tube platforms.

Then, use some of the freed-up terminal space at Paddington to for some
Chiltern trains from Birmingham.

Adrian.