"The InterCity" wrote in message
oups.com...

snipped stuff I agree with

I am not so sure about that. I was on a Class 375 going into London and
was having to stand in the vestibule area. As you well know, these
trains are not designed for having commuters crammed inside, quite the
contrary, but that was exactly the situation. The vestibule area was
just too small to accommodate people, and at Waterloo East more people
were trying to get on - it was a nightmare. Compare this with the Class
376, and the problems of this whole scenario are alleviated. Indeed, a
passenger is likely to take a Class 375/9 hands down on a journey of
long duration, but I suspect that the Class 376 would be preferred by
commuters on jam-packed lines such as those to Dartford.

I'm not so sure about that though - I use Bexley station on the Dartford
line via Sidcup and very much prefer a 375/9 over a 376. I think the 376
would probably be preferred by users of Hither Green, Lewisham, Blackheath,
Deptford, Greenwich etc, but I reckon when you get out to places such as
Abbey Wood, Welling, Sidcup and beyond, people don't want to slum it in
uncomfortable urban stock, particularly off-peak.

I find Bexley to Charing Cross in reality (ignoring timetable), is about 45
mins in the peak. For me, that is simply too long to be sitting on a badly
shaped seat that feels like a wooden bench, particularly when our friends
from Sevenoaks are zooming past on a 2x2 375 with a shorter journey time!

We seem to have two unfortunate extremes - the 376 designed for ultra-peak
wedged workings, and the 2x2 375 which seems to be designed for fairly long
distance off-peak journeys. So perhaps the 375/9 is the happy medium after
all :-)

Having said all that, there's still no excuse for making the 376 seats so
damn uncomfortable, that's just plain inexcusable. If there's gonna be less
seating, at least make it comfortable!

Rich

Rich Mallard wrote:
I'm not so sure about that though - I use Bexley station on the
Dartford
line via Sidcup and very much prefer a 375/9 over a 376. I think the
376
would probably be preferred by users of Hither Green, Lewisham,
Blackheath,
Deptford, Greenwich etc, but I reckon when you get out to places such
as
Abbey Wood, Welling, Sidcup and beyond, people don't want to slum it
in
uncomfortable urban stock, particularly off-peak.


However, an operator of the trains is not simply going to terminate a
Class 376 at those locations for the sake of changing the type of unit.

Of course, there is the alternative of embarking on a train at either
Farningham Road or Swanley, where you will be able to use Class 375s
and the occasional 4 Vep. The line speed is much greater, with fewer
stops, but from my experience, it is just as crowded during the peak as
the North Kent Lines are. That is not to say that Class 375s do not
traverse our native North Kent routes: it was only yesterday that I saw
one speed through Swanscombe. However, such movements are empty stock
to Slade Green Depot.

Having said all that, there's still no excuse for making the 376
seats so
damn uncomfortable, that's just plain inexcusable. If there's gonna
be less
seating, at least make it comfortable!


I am not fond of the lack of comfortable seating either, but our lines
have far more scheduled stops than the route to Sevenoaks (Tubs Hill)
and that via Swanley. It would seem uneconomical to be using what is
general acknowledged as 'main line' stock on our lines. If I am correct
in what I remember, then the Class 375/9 is an 'outer suburban' breed,
whereas the Class 376 is 'inner suburban'. The latter describes the
North Kent network up to at least Dartford. Plus, the Class 465/466
units still constitute the bulk of the off-peak diagrams, thus at least
we still have a comparatively more comfortable alternative. A few
Doncaster-refurbished Class 465s may even creep onto our lines as a
temporary measure, thus we have some hope.

We seem to have two unfortunate extremes - the 376 designed for
ultra-peak
wedged workings, and the 2x2 375 which seems to be designed for
fairly long
distance off-peak journeys. So perhaps the 375/9 is the happy medium
after
all :-)


London to Dartford = Inner suburban. Thus, that equals Class 376.
London to Sevenoaks & Tonbridge = Outer suburban. This equates to the
modest Class 375/9.
London to Dover = Long distance. Therefore, a Class 375, not including
the 375/9 derivative.

If Crossrail finally takes off, you will have the option of traversing
the Dartford Loop (using the existing Sidcup service via Slade Green
and Erith), and embarking on Crossrail stock at Abbey Wood. You will
have to hope these trains are more comfortable!

Just to add, it is good to see Bexley station upholding the Network
SouthEast tradition of red lamp posts!