Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005, James Farrar wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Hence, i suppose, the name 'T-cup'.

I thought the tea-cup name came from:

/----+---------------\
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
\---------------/

which looks a bit like a tea cup to me

Good god! I think you're right. I knew the tube diagram was an
exercise in fiendish Masonic symbolism, but this, this i had never
expected!

How about a route like this:

Hammersmith
Edgware Road
Liverpool Street
Aldgate
Tower Hill
Gloucester Road
Edgware Road (reverse)
Gloucester Road
Tower Hill
Aldgate East
Barking (reverse and do the whole thing backwards)

That, i think you'll find, would make it a tea-pot service!

Now, how can we do scones?

Hainault Loop? (It's jam-coloured!)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Mon, 30 May 2005, Jack Taylor wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...

While we're on the H&C station at Paddington, i noticed the other day
that there are two mainline platforms on the fare-paid side of the
barriers; what are those all about? Are they used for suburban
services?

They are used by First Great Western Link suburban services. The original
layout of the four platforms was different and was remodelled in the 1960s,
when through services from the GW suburban stations ceased.

What do you mean by "through services from the GW suburban stations"?

Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without
passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the
suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge!

Worth knowing!

Ahem, not that i would ever resort to such knavery, of course. For a
start, there's nowhere equally cooperative to get off in town ...

tom

--
power to the people and the beats

On Tue, 31 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

I wondered whether Crossrail could take over Hammersmith - Paddington;

Yes, i've heard that idea mentioned by others. Strikes me as a good one,
basically.

Frequency on the northern side of the Circle could be maintained by
extending Wimblewares through to Whitechapel etc.

Or bringing more Metropolitan trains down from Baker Street to Aldgate -
sorry, Barking? That would leave a gap on the section before Baker Street,
though. Oh, if only they'd built a reversing bay at Baker Street, and we
could have a Wimbleker service ...

The problems would include the resiting of Royal Oak station (as the
Crossrail tunnel will surface right next to it)

Although if they knew they were going to do this all along, they could
probably bring the tunnel up slightly further east, destroying the link
from the SSL to Royal Oak in the process.

Where are the Crossrail lines going to be in the GW formation? Would
Crossrail - Hammersmith trains have to cross other lines? I doubt there's
room for a flying junction in the Paddington throat ...

and poorer access to stations Edgware Road - King's Cross.

That's probably the biggest issue - i should imagine lots of people living
on the H&C route work somewhere on the northern edge of the circle. All
such people who i know do. But then i work somewhere on the northern edge
of the circle, so they would!

tom

--
power to the people and the beats

Tom Anderson wrote:


Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without
passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the
suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge!

Worth knowing!

--
power to the people and the beats


I was sure that barriers were placed on the footbridge too...

Tom Anderson wrote:


Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without
passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the
suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge!

Worth knowing!

--
power to the people and the beats


I was sure that barriers were placed on the footbridge too...

Tom Anderson wrote:


Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without
passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the
suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge!

Worth knowing!

--
power to the people and the beats


I was sure that barriers were placed on the footbridge too...

Tom Anderson wrote:


Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without
passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the
suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge!

Worth knowing!

--
power to the people and the beats


I was sure that barriers were placed on the footbridge too...

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...

What do you mean by "through services from the GW suburban stations"?

The H&C line stations were originally part of the GW, with connections to
the West London Railway, together with the crossovers at Paddington allowing
through working (reputedly even a Windsor to Aldgate service at one time!).
In latter years the only through working tended to be by freight services,
until the crossovers became redundant and were removed in 1968.

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/hammersmith.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...ington-station
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/history.htm

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

I wondered whether Crossrail could take over Hammersmith - Paddington;


Yes, i've heard that idea mentioned by others. Strikes me as a good one,
basically.

Frequency on the northern side of the Circle could be maintained by
extending Wimblewares through to Whitechapel etc.


Or bringing more Metropolitan trains down from Baker Street to Aldgate -
sorry, Barking? That would leave a gap on the section before Baker
Street, though. Oh, if only they'd built a reversing bay at Baker
Street, and we could have a Wimbleker service ...

I'm still not keen on Met trains running through to Barking - too long a
journey across too many flat junctions.

Perhaps the Wimblewares should take over Circle services by running all
the way around to Edgware Road again - or even loop-the-loop and then
head out to Whitechapel.

The problems would include the resiting of Royal Oak station (as the
Crossrail tunnel will surface right next to it)


Although if they knew they were going to do this all along, they could
probably bring the tunnel up slightly further east, destroying the link
from the SSL to Royal Oak in the process.

Assuming the current plans go ahead, it all depends on how long it takes
any gradient to level out to the west of the tunnel portal. I suspect
that it doesn't do so properly until around half the way to Westbourne
Park, which would be a pain.

Where are the Crossrail lines going to be in the GW formation? Would
Crossrail - Hammersmith trains have to cross other lines? I doubt
there's room for a flying junction in the Paddington throat ...

Crossrail is on the northern side of the formation as it surfaces,
immediately adjacent to the platforms at Royal Oak - no problem
connecting the infrastructure.

There might be some trickiness in extending the elevated station
platforms though.

and poorer access to stations Edgware Road - King's Cross.


That's probably the biggest issue - i should imagine lots of people
living on the H&C route work somewhere on the northern edge of the
circle. All such people who i know do. But then i work somewhere on the
northern edge of the circle, so they would!

Presumably the major destination on the H&C is the City, which Crossrail
serves fine. The Euston area poses some problems - people would have to
change at Paddington or Tottenham Court Road. Then again, the
interchange at Paddington shouldn't be too bad (if the Crossrail station
is under Eastbourne Terrace and the Circle line is under Praed St,
interchange won't be too long, particularly for Crossrail eastbound to
Circle eastbound), and if the main traffic generators around Euston are
to the south of the Euston Road, then they may not be that much further
from TCR Crossrail.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article ,
Jack Taylor wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...

What do you mean by "through services from the GW suburban stations"?

The H&C line stations were originally part of the GW, with connections
to the West London Railway, together with the crossovers at Paddington
allowing through working (reputedly even a Windsor to Aldgate service at
one time!). In latter years the only through working tended to be by
freight services, until the crossovers became redundant and were removed
in 1968.

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/hammersmith.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...ington-station
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/history.htm

Through passenger trains changed from steam to Metropolitan electric locos
(eg Sarah Siddons and her sisters) at Paddington Suburban (Bishops Road).
Freight trains were steam hauled throughout. It was great watching the
surprised look on the faces of waiting passengers as a pannier tank on a
freight train came rumbling through the Circle line stations.

David