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Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Apologies if this has been covered before, I have attempted a search
but after 8 pages I have found nothing. I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In article . com,
ONscotland writes I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. I've not seen the 2009 date suggested before, but people have been trying to get rid of the Circle for at least 70 years. See, for example avros.org&lr=&hl=en -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message . com, at
15:46:09 on Thu, 26 May 2005, ONscotland remarked: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis: running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the top again before exiting east. -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
It won't happen until the fabled new sub surface stock arrives on the
scene, if we get the Olympics it will be earlier, if we don't it will be later. Roland Perry wrote: In message . com, at 15:46:09 on Thu, 26 May 2005, ONscotland remarked: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis: running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the top again before exiting east. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article . com, ONscotland writes I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. I've not seen the 2009 date suggested before, but people have been trying to get rid of the Circle for at least 70 years. If one wanted to go further back neither the Metropolitan nor the District Railways wanted it in the first place. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
I've not seen the 2009 date suggested before, but people have been
trying to get rid of the Circle for at least 70 years. If one wanted to go further back neither the Metropolitan nor the District Railways wanted it in the first place. The fact that the Metropolitan created the District Railway shows that they did want it "in the first place". -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "I don't know about your brain, | but mine is really bossy." -- Laurie Anderson |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Mark Brader wrote:
I've not seen the 2009 date suggested before, but people have been trying to get rid of the Circle for at least 70 years. If one wanted to go further back neither the Metropolitan nor the District Railways wanted it in the first place. The fact that the Metropolitan created the District Railway shows that they did want it "in the first place". The Met didn't create the District, it was a seperate company and the two spent more time arguiing and at odds with each other than anything else. It is also documented that neither the Met nor District wanted the Circle to be completed because they had to be forced by an independent Act of Parliament to build it. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Roland Perry wrote:
In message . com, at 15:46:09 on Thu, 26 May 2005, ONscotland remarked: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis: running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the top again before exiting east. Isn't this effectively what happens now, though? Only difference being the number of loops before exiting stage left. Robin |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
If one wanted to go further back neither the Metropolitan nor the
District Railways wanted [the Circle] in the first place. The fact that the Metropolitan created the District Railway shows that they did want it "in the first place". The Met didn't create the District, it was a seperate company... Which was deliberately given the very similar name of the Metropolitan District Railway, to indicate the intention that the two would work in cooperation and in due course be merged. The only reason it was made a separate company is that they thought it would be easier to attract capital that way. and the two spent more time arguiing and at odds with each other than anything else... Sure, that's how it worked out. I'm talking about *before* that. "In the first place." -- Mark Brader, Toronto "Those who cannot Google the past are destined to repost it." -- Huey Callison My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
ONscotland wrote:
Apologies if this has been covered before, I have attempted a search but after 8 pages I have found nothing. I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in their sights now. http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/39 http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/SS...%20Upgrade.htm http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...ade_plans.html -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message , at 10:10:21 on Fri, 27
May 2005, R.C. Payne remarked: Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis: running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the top again before exiting east. Isn't this effectively what happens now, though? Only difference being the number of loops before exiting stage left. Not really. No. The H&C does about 45% of the loop, and the District another 40%. The remaining 15% at the western end (Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd) isn't looped at all (the Circle is the only line that goes from Gloucester Rd to High St Ken). -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message .uk... In message , at 10:10:21 on Fri, 27 May 2005, R.C. Payne remarked: Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis: running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the top again before exiting east. Isn't this effectively what happens now, though? Only difference being the number of loops before exiting stage left. Not really. No. The H&C does about 45% of the loop, and the District another 40%. The remaining 15% at the western end (Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd) isn't looped at all (the Circle is the only line that goes from Gloucester Rd to High St Ken). I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service, then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in between? Michael |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message , at 10:15:33 on Sat,
28 May 2005, Michael Hopkins remarked: I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service, then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in between? If you are saying that a train leaves Hammersmith as "H&C" and then is re-branded "Circle" when it gets to Edgware Rd, then does a few 'circles', eventually being rebranded as "H&C" at Liverpool St and heading off to Barking; then that's not something I'd ever noticed. It is, however, very similar to the plan I referred to earlier. -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In article , Michael Hopkins
writes I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service, then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in between? The normal arrangement is for the Circle trains (201-207 and 211-217) to come from depot or sidings and run straight into Circle service (or reverse direction somewhere and then circulate). Most circle continuously all day, then go to depot or sidings, but some may turn into H&Cs after the evening peak. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in their sights now. Three questions: Firstly, am i right in thinking that it will no longer be possible to catch a train from anywhere anticlockwise of Edgware Road to anywhere clockwise of it (or vice versa)? High Street Kensington to Baker Street, say, or Bayswater to King's Cross. That would seem like a very, very serious degradation in service. Secondly, what happened to the panhandle plan? That had H&C trains doing Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - Aldgate East - Whitechapel or Barking; in other words, coming in like a current H&C, doing one turn round the circle, then going out like an H&C. That turned the circle into a line, allowing recovery time to be inserted, but maintained a mostly circular service (you couldn't go from south of Edgware Road to south of Liverpool Street in a clockwise direction, but other than that, you have direct trains between any two points). Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? tom -- Only men's minds could have mapped into abstraction such a territory |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message , at
01:26:46 on Sun, 29 May 2005, Tom Anderson remarked: Firstly, am i right in thinking that it will no longer be possible to catch a train from anywhere anticlockwise of Edgware Road to anywhere clockwise of it (or vice versa)? High Street Kensington to Baker Street, say, or Bayswater to King's Cross. That would seem like a very, very serious degradation in service. If the change you describe were to be introduced, it wouldn't matter very much, because that section of the [circle] line is appallingly unreliable. If withdrawing the 'Circle' trains made the remaining trains more reliable, then even with a change at Edgware Rd, the result would be an overall improvement. -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
The plan is for trains to run from Hammersmith H&C to Edgware Road via
the Circle line, and back - ie Edgware Road to Hammersmith via the Circle. Thus the only current Circle type journeys that will require a change of train will be those such as Bayswater - Baker St. Each section is expected to have a 4 min service, and the section between Paddington and Edgware Road will be a bit busy (30 trains per hour) |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
knapp gate wrote:
The plan is for trains to run from Hammersmith H&C to Edgware Road via the Circle line, and back - ie Edgware Road to Hammersmith via the Circle. Thus the only current Circle type journeys that will require a change of train will be those such as Bayswater - Baker St. Each section is expected to have a 4 min service, and the section between Paddington and Edgware Road will be a bit busy (30 trains per hour) Which Paddington? |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Did I imagine this, or was there a plan to run the
Hammersmith-Circle-Edgware Road service alongside an extended Wimbelware running Wimbledon-Earl's Court-King's Cross-Barking? That would account for almost all useful journies on the Circle without a change - only a few isolated ones like Gloucester Road to Baker Street would become impossible. Jonn |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
sorry - to be precise it's from the junction where the tiles from
Paddington Circle and the one from Paddington suburban join together; it's called Praed St junction |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in their sights now. (snip) Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message , at 21:38:24 on Sun, 29 May
2005, Dave Arquati remarked: Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg? -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:38:24 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in their sights now. (snip) Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Nobody's asked the most important question - what's this going to do to the look of the map?! :-) Charlie -- Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In article , Roland
Perry writes I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg? No, but if people get to know that the trains on the H&C platform always go straight to KX while those on the Circle platform *never* do, which are they going to use? -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:38:24 on Sun, 29 May 2005, Dave Arquati remarked: Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg? No - if trains run the pattern I described, then trains calling at Paddington (Circle) eastbound will only ever be running as far as Edgware Road, so nearly every passenger heading east will have to use the current H&C eastbound platform instead. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
ONscotland wrote:
I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? No knowledge on the scheme, but the proposals on other threads to dig up the Aldgate stations and produce an integrated interchange could help such a plan no end! In my humble opinion the lines don't really work properly - far too travellers are left with no idea when the through service they need is coming, with the result that Liverpool Street fills up with everyone trying to get as far as possible and many having to make sprints between Aldgate or running around at Tower Hill in the hope of making an interchange, if they can get that far (the number of times it seems that only the Met is running astounds me). Even an upgrade of the platform indicators so that they can always show the next train for each destination combination would be an improvement (although the patisserie on the Aldgates-bound platform at Liverpool Street may not see it that way!) |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? No knowledge on the scheme, but the proposals on other threads to dig up the Aldgate stations and produce an integrated interchange could help such a plan no end! In my humble opinion the lines don't really work properly - far too travellers are left with no idea when the through service they need is coming, with the result that Liverpool Street fills up with everyone trying to get as far as possible and many having to make sprints between Aldgate or running around at Tower Hill in the hope of making an interchange, if they can get that far (the number of times it seems that only the Met is running astounds me). Even an upgrade of the platform indicators so that they can always show the next train for each destination combination would be an improvement (although the patisserie on the Aldgates-bound platform at Liverpool Street may not see it that way!) Well, hopefully any changes made to the way the subsurface network operates would improve reliability and thus reduce the "getting as far as you can" problem that happens at the moment. The problem is that although the proposed change is meant to improve reliability on the Circle and increase the service to Hammersmith, it requires that Met trains are diverted from Aldgate to Whitechapel or Barking to replace the lost H&C service from Liverpool Street eastwards. Not only does that mean that Met City services are required to traverse an extra flat junction at Aldgate East, the longer route will be more susceptible to delay. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
In message , at 10:51:40 on Mon, 30
May 2005, Clive D. W. Feather remarked: I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg? No, but if people get to know that the trains on the H&C platform always go straight to KX while those on the Circle platform *never* do, which are they going to use? Ah, so these trains terminate at Edgware Road do they? Is there the capacity to do that, as well as terminating the Wimbleware ones? -- Roland Perry |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Sun, 29 May 2005, knapp gate wrote:
sorry - to be precise it's from the junction where the tiles from Paddington Circle and the one from Paddington suburban join together; Tiles? tom -- I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation |
Paddington H&C was Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Sun, 29 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that at all? I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms. Makes sense; i was wondering what changes might be made. I guess that whole bridge/ticket barrier thing could be improved quite a bit. I've just realised that this plan would have the side effect of making catching a tube east at Paddington a lot less frustrating, since there would be zero through trains from the circle platform, as opposed to almost zero! While we're on the H&C station at Paddington, i noticed the other day that there are two mainline platforms on the fare-paid side of the barriers; what are those all about? Are they used for suburban services? tom -- I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Mon, 30 May 2005, Charlie Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in their sights now. Nobody's asked the most important question - what's this going to do to the look of the map?! :-) My money's on the Hammersmith end of the H&C being a horizontal line though Paddington, Edgware Road and Baker Street, with the Edgware Road end, along with the Wimbleware, running into it vertically, much in the manner of Hammersmith or Elephant & Castle. Paddington would have circles on the lines in both directions; they would not necessarily be linked with a stem, since there isn't an in-station interchange between them (i think they're separate on the current tube map; i only have a London Connections to hand). Here's some ascii (minus the Bakerloo!): Edgware Road ---------O---O---O--- Paddington | Baker Street | O Paddington | | + Bayswater | | Hence, i suppose, the name 'T-cup'. tom -- I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Mon, 30 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? The problem is that although the proposed change is meant to improve reliability on the Circle and increase the service to Hammersmith, it requires that Met trains are diverted from Aldgate to Whitechapel or Barking to replace the lost H&C service from Liverpool Street eastwards. Not only does that mean that Met City services are required to traverse an extra flat junction at Aldgate East, the longer route will be more susceptible to delay. Isn't there also a significant increase in the number of movements over Praed Street junction? 22.5 up to 30 tph springs to mind, BICBW. I'm skeptical about the chances of a plan which increases the exposure to two flat junctions increasing reliability! I was thinking about this the other day, and i realised there's another downside: no direct trains from east of Aldgate to Paddington. Not a showstopper, but it does make catching a train out west that bit harder from the east end. Again, the improved overall frequency in practice should more than make up for this, but still, a pain. tom -- I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Tom Anderson wrote:
Hence, i suppose, the name 'T-cup'. I thought the tea-cup name came from: /----+---------------\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \---------------/ which looks a bit like a tea cup to me :) |
Paddington H&C was Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... While we're on the H&C station at Paddington, i noticed the other day that there are two mainline platforms on the fare-paid side of the barriers; what are those all about? Are they used for suburban services? They are used by First Great Western Link suburban services. The original layout of the four platforms was different and was remodelled in the 1960s, when through services from the GW suburban stations ceased. LUL trains used to run through the centre pair of platforms, whilst GW suburban services used the outer faces, giving cross-platform changes between the two services in each direction. The remodelling concentrated suburban services on the two faces of the southern island and LU services on the two faces of the northern island and removed the crossovers and all physical links between the two systems. For some reason, although it is possible to walk along the platform from the mainline station to the suburban platform unimpeded, the LUL gates need to be traversed when accessing the suburban platforms from the footbridge. Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge! |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:52:23 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: I was thinking about this the other day, and i realised there's another downside: no direct trains from east of Aldgate to Paddington. Not a showstopper, but it does make catching a train out west that bit harder from the east end. Again, the improved overall frequency in practice should more than make up for this, but still, a pain. I personally don't use the District or Circle for a journey of that length because it's too slow/infrequent. Such passengers would probably be better off using the Central and changing. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:15:33 on Sat, 28 May 2005, Michael Hopkins remarked: I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service, then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in between? If you are saying that a train leaves Hammersmith as "H&C" and then is re-branded "Circle" when it gets to Edgware Rd, then does a few 'circles', eventually being rebranded as "H&C" at Liverpool St and heading off to Barking; then that's not something I'd ever noticed. It is, however, very similar to the plan I referred to earlier. I have been on a circle train coming round from the City (Eastbound on the district), and as soon as it reached Liverpool St, the automatic lady told me it was a Hammersmith and City line train to Hammersmith. Was a few years ago (probably about 5), but I recall asking on here at the time and being told it was not unusual. My memory might be at fault. Robin |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: ONscotland wrote: I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route. Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District Line will still have services), but without a circular service operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised. Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan that is being considered? The problem is that although the proposed change is meant to improve reliability on the Circle and increase the service to Hammersmith, it requires that Met trains are diverted from Aldgate to Whitechapel or Barking to replace the lost H&C service from Liverpool Street eastwards. Not only does that mean that Met City services are required to traverse an extra flat junction at Aldgate East, the longer route will be more susceptible to delay. Isn't there also a significant increase in the number of movements over Praed Street junction? 22.5 up to 30 tph springs to mind, BICBW. I'm skeptical about the chances of a plan which increases the exposure to two flat junctions increasing reliability! Well, yes. There's also a need to reverse a large number of trains at Edgware Road. I wonder what alternative plans have been considered and why they have been rejected. All sorts of combinations of H&C, Met, Circle and Wimbleware services are possible, and I think there was a big discussion about this on here a few months ago. I wondered whether Crossrail could take over Hammersmith - Paddington; it would make use of some/all of those 15tph from the east that would be terminating at Paddington (or rather, reverse at Westbourne Park sidings), it would remove all conflicting movements across Praed St junction, and would release two platforms at Paddington for suburban services to use. Frequency on the northern side of the Circle could be maintained by extending Wimblewares through to Whitechapel etc. The problems would include the resiting of Royal Oak station (as the Crossrail tunnel will surface right next to it) and poorer access to stations Edgware Road - King's Cross. I was thinking about this the other day, and i realised there's another downside: no direct trains from east of Aldgate to Paddington. Not a showstopper, but it does make catching a train out west that bit harder from the east end. Again, the improved overall frequency in practice should more than make up for this, but still, a pain. tom -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Paddington H&C was Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Jack Taylor wrote:
For some reason, although it is possible to walk along the platform from the mainline station to the suburban platform unimpeded, the LUL gates need to be traversed when accessing the suburban platforms from the footbridge. Conversely, it is possible to gain access to the LUL platforms without passing through the barriers by using the mainline access to the suburban platforms and then crossing via the footbridge! I've also noticed this - I presume that the gateline had to be installed further down the footbridge, thus including the suburban platforms, for reasons of space and safety. But the lack of gates to get onto the suburban platforms from the mainline concourse (which is not a secret route - it is a signposted route from the concourse) makes this a distinctly leaky part of the central London Underground network. Recently when entering the H&C platforms using this route when I was to use Oyster Pre-Pay (there are readers on the H&C platforms to touch-in on), there were revenue protection staff from First Great Western Link checking tickets on the route from the mainline concourse to the suburban platforms. As I had no ticket to present to them as such, all I had to do was say "I'm going on the Underground & I'm using Pre-Pay" and they let me through, as of course they had to. I presume that if the tea-cup plan were to be implemented, then gatelines would be installed on the route from the mainline concourse to the suburban station, thus eliminating this anomaly. |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
On Tue, 31 May 2005, James Farrar wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: Hence, i suppose, the name 'T-cup'. I thought the tea-cup name came from: /----+---------------\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \---------------/ which looks a bit like a tea cup to me :) Good god! I think you're right. I knew the tube diagram was an exercise in fiendish Masonic symbolism, but this, this i had never expected! How about a route like this: Hammersmith Edgware Road Liverpool Street Aldgate Tower Hill Gloucester Road Edgware Road (reverse) Gloucester Road Tower Hill Aldgate East Barking (reverse and do the whole thing backwards) That, i think you'll find, would make it a tea-pot service! Now, how can we do scones? tom -- power to the people and the beats |
Circle Line "closing" from 2009?
Tom Anderson writes:
How about a route like this: Hammersmith Edgware Road Liverpool Street Aldgate Tower Hill Gloucester Road Edgware Road (reverse) Gloucester Road Tower Hill Aldgate East Barking (reverse and do the whole thing backwards) That, i think you'll find, would make it a tea-pot service! Yep, "Barking" is the word, all right! :-) -- Mark Brader | "But [he] had already established his own reputation Toronto | as someone who wrote poetry that mentioned the el." | --Al Kriman |
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