Sounds like a fanatastic idea.
Are they really thinking of doing it though?
DLR seems to be extending every which way but west.

A Charing Cross branch sounds good. But isnt it just as easy to go to
Tower Gateway and jump on a circle/district. If there already tunnels
there and some prework already commenced then maybe it possible. It
would certainly be used by many as its a useful route to st pauls too
for the tourists.

A farringdon branch seems somewhat redundant when crossrail comes along
(if it ever does) as you'll be able to connect into the DLR at WIQ and
IOD crossrail. But right now would be a useful addition as its not that
straightforward to get to Farringdon. (best route for me is DLR to Bank
then a bus or walk even. I also guess that would also involve expensive
tunnelling from Bank to Moorgate. Do DLR have that kinda money?

The only other problem I see is that the DLR especially the Bank branch
is heavily congested as it is. 3 car will help but i'm sure the
additional capacity will be quickly used up. So running to farringdon
or Charing cross will just add more and more people onto an
already congested system. Well have those tourist taking it to St Pauls
for instance.

But worthwhile ideas for extenstions. If only to allow addtional
connections into the tube network. (Bakerloo and Northern at Charring
Cross and Thameslink Hammersmith and City at Farringdon)

A.

Londoncityslicker wrote:

A Charing Cross branch sounds good. But isnt it just as easy to go to
Tower Gateway and jump on a circle/district.

True, but the three stations (Tower Hill, Tower Gateway and Fenchurch
Street) are all spread out quite a bit and so are rather poor for
interchanging. (Was there a reason why they didn't build DLR right up to the
concourse at Fenchurch Street?)

A farringdon branch seems somewhat redundant when crossrail comes along
(if it ever does) as you'll be able to connect into the DLR at WIQ and
IOD crossrail. But right now would be a useful addition as its not that
straightforward to get to Farringdon. (best route for me is DLR to Bank
then a bus or walk even. I also guess that would also involve expensive
tunnelling from Bank to Moorgate. Do DLR have that kinda money?

How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing to
the north already?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Londoncityslicker wrote:
True, but the three stations (Tower Hill, Tower Gateway and Fenchurch
Street) are all spread out quite a bit and so are rather poor for
interchanging. (Was there a reason why they didn't build DLR right up to the
concourse at Fenchurch Street?)

I don't know the answer, but considering how close the stations are to
each other, it's a shame that there's no 'proper' interchange without
having to descend to street level...

How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing to
the north already?

There's a single-track headshunt to the north-west (IIRC) of the Bank
DLR platforms which extends quite a long way towards Moorgate (I
suppose it's where the TBM ended up). But, as has been discussed before
when deciding what to do with the Moorgate Thameslink branch, how are
you going to get the trains up to sub-surface level between the end of
the headshunt and the platforms at Moorgate?

On 24 Jun 2005 04:08:01 -0700, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing to
the north already?

There's a single-track headshunt to the north-west (IIRC) of the Bank
DLR platforms which extends quite a long way towards Moorgate (I
suppose it's where the TBM ended up). But, as has been discussed before
when deciding what to do with the Moorgate Thameslink branch, how are
you going to get the trains up to sub-surface level between the end of
the headshunt and the platforms at Moorgate?

You are assuming that there will be connections at Moorgate. If
Crossrail is built I cannot see how on earth DLR could possibly
construct any sort of station in the Moorgate area. Given how easy the
Northern Line connection is at Bank from DLR I would not be at all
surprised that DLR simply bypassed Moorgate as it climbs to the surface
and that the DLR station at Farringdon would be double ended with
Barbican Tube Station.

If there is an extension to Charing Cross then I'd quite like to see a
link that ran via St Pauls, City Thameslink / Blackfriars, Aldwych and
Charing Cross. That would be a very useful link but it would be
phenomenally expensive to construct and I think even 3 car DLR trains
would struggle to cope with the potential flows of passengers if the bus
services over this corridor were reduced (as is normal practice).

It also raises the question about just how many East - West links London
needs between the West End, the City and Docklands. You'd end up with
the Central Line, Jubilee Line, Crossrail and DLR. Can 4 such high
capacity services really be justified in today's climate of no
government spending on rail or light transit investment? I appreciate
the Mayor has a few billion at his disposal but Crossrail would eat all
of that money and more.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On 24 Jun 2005 04:08:01 -0700, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing
to
the north already?

There's a single-track headshunt to the north-west (IIRC) of the Bank
DLR platforms which extends quite a long way towards Moorgate (I
suppose it's where the TBM ended up). But, as has been discussed before
when deciding what to do with the Moorgate Thameslink branch, how are
you going to get the trains up to sub-surface level between the end of
the headshunt and the platforms at Moorgate?

You are assuming that there will be connections at Moorgate. If
Crossrail is built I cannot see how on earth DLR could possibly
construct any sort of station in the Moorgate area. Given how easy the
Northern Line connection is at Bank from DLR I would not be at all
surprised that DLR simply bypassed Moorgate as it climbs to the surface
and that the DLR station at Farringdon would be double ended with
Barbican Tube Station.

If there is an extension to Charing Cross then I'd quite like to see a
link that ran via St Pauls, City Thameslink / Blackfriars, Aldwych and
Charing Cross. That would be a very useful link but it would be
phenomenally expensive to construct and I think even 3 car DLR trains
would struggle to cope with the potential flows of passengers if the bus
services over this corridor were reduced (as is normal practice).

It also raises the question about just how many East - West links London
needs between the West End, the City and Docklands. You'd end up with
the Central Line, Jubilee Line, Crossrail and DLR. Can 4 such high
capacity services really be justified in today's climate of no
government spending on rail or light transit investment? I appreciate
the Mayor has a few billion at his disposal but Crossrail would eat all
of that money and more.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

I agree that a DLR station at Moorgate seems a bit too much, considering
that it's an easy trip on the Northern from Bank and that Crossrail will
connect it to the Isle of Dogs. However, as the route is on it's way to
Farringdon then it may be useful simply to give more interchange to LU
services.

It is certainly a busy area in terms of rail services. But note that the
crossrail station is actually a few hundred yards away from Moorgate station
proper and is at Moorhouse. So maybe there is space to fit a DLR line
through it. Or maybe Moorhouse will has infact have the space for a DLR
line.
Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think). There is
a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could make use of
these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that one though.

The Charing Cross link looks the most interesting. As for cost. It's likely
to be high. And i agree that even with 3 car. The line is likely to be
stretched to capacity in the peak and maybe at other times.

In article ,
(londoncityslicker) wrote:

Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think).
There is a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could
make use of these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that
one though.

Surely the orientation is all wrong there?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
londoncityslicker writes
Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think).

The WAGN services at Moorgate run Monday to Friday from about 0600 to
2200.

Do you mean the Thameslink services?

There is
a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could make use of
these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that one though.

Getting up from the depths at Bank to the subsurface platforms at
Moorgate, while at the same time turning through a large angle and
without hitting any of the other tunnels down there, seems somewhat
impractical.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article , londoncityslicker
writes

Also the WAGN services [...] There is a possibility of them being wound
down, in which case DLR could make use of these platforms. I'm not too
sure of the logistics of that one though.

Getting up from the depths at Bank to the subsurface platforms at
Moorgate, while at the same time turning through a large angle and
without hitting any of the other tunnels down there, seems somewhat
impractical.

Just how deep is the DLR at Bank? ISTR that the DLR is capable of climbing
relatively steep gradients - steeper than the 1:30 that's the
rule-of-thumb limit on heavy rail. It's almost 600 metres from Bank to
Moorgate, and more along the looping route that a tunnel would have to
take - even at 1:30, that would allow 20 metres of climbing. Is that not
enough?

I suspect it's the loopiness that would be the real challenge: to get from
the north-north-west direction at Bank to the west-north-west direction at
Moorgate would involve a rather tight S-bend, with a radius of curvature
as little as 100 metres. And as for doing that without hitting tunnels or
foundations ...

Is there anything the Midland City stub could be used for, after it's
severed from Thameslink? Would it be possible to use it to handle
Metropolitan trains to Moorgate? Would there be any point?

tom

--
It's almost over now.