"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...

Dulfersitz:

What do you mean? When I were a lad that was _the_ way you abseiled!
Been down all sorts of terrain in the Lakes, Scotland, Wales and Alps
that way. Bowline and two half hitches round the waist to tie on too.
None of these fancy harnesses and stuff

One can hardly claim a figure of 8 decender is 'hi tech' !!

mark wrote:

2 carabiner brake: two carabiners laid end to end with enough overlap to
pass the ropes through. Rope is woven through the two overlapping carabiners
as it would be through a descending rack. This is best done with the funny
banana shaped locking carabiners that used to be favored by Czech and other
east European climbers. In fact, I first saw this done by a Czech climber
who proudly told me that this was "East European Technique".

Sounds a bit like an alpine clutch.. I have abseiled on a Munther
hitch before which is a variation. Alpine clutch: two stacked/opposed
carabiners clipped in to harness. Rope goes throug both then wraps
round and goes through one.

Munther hitch is nearly a clove hitch.

4 carabiner brake: 2 carabiners are stacked on top of one another w/ gates
opposed and reversed. A bight of rope is fed through these carabiners, then
2 more are clipped across the first two to form a brake bar, as in a
descending rack. With enough carabiners, one can build as long a descending
rack as one wishes. Works best w/ oval carabiners. Very effective, very
dependable, every climber should know this technique.


--
mark

BTW I am all in favour of improvising because e.g. incidents on non SRT
trips are exactly where you may have to.


Indeed..

...d

In message .com
"MartinM" wrote:



David Martin wrote:

As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

again the only thing which springs to mind is an Italian hitch (not
recommended) what other methods are there?

I have once abseiled on an Italian hitch, just the once about 15-20 feet to
try it out. I can say it is not something I would like to do again.

If you are silly enough to try it, get someone on the ground to hold the
rope just in case.

Martin.

--
Typed by monkey #27662472869676 on typewriter #7552416572242
When emailing me, please include the word Banana in the subject line.

Martin Dann wrote:
In message .com
"MartinM" wrote:



David Martin wrote:

As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

again the only thing which springs to mind is an Italian hitch (not
recommended) what other methods are there?

I have once abseiled on an Italian hitch, just the once about 15-20 feet to
try it out. I can say it is not something I would like to do again.

If you are silly enough to try it, get someone on the ground to hold the
rope just in case.

no different to a figure of eight then.. I have abseiled significant
distances on a Munther hitch (aka italian hitch). It is partly a case
of what you are familiar with. I'd probably use an alpine clutch of
preference.

Scariest abseil was down the outside of Aldwych tube station, first
time I had abseiled with a full pack on. Taught me to always use a
chest harness when abseiling with a pack..

...d

Martin.

--
Typed by monkey #27662472869676 on typewriter #7552416572242
When emailing me, please include the word Banana in the subject line.

Tony W wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...


Dulfersitz:

What do you mean? When I were a lad that was _the_ way you abseiled!
Been down all sorts of terrain in the Lakes, Scotland, Wales and Alps
that way. Bowline and two half hitches round the waist to tie on too.
None of these fancy harnesses and stuff


One can hardly claim a figure of 8 decender is 'hi tech' !!


I didn't but neither has it always been around and people somehow
managed to abseil without it before it existed


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

mark wrote:
"MartinM" wrote

Dulfersitz: Straddle the ropes, bring the rope up and over one's shoulder
from behind, then across the front of the torso and down past the opposite
hip. Painful, not recommended, only works on low angle terrain, only done in
the direst of emergencies. I tried this once on a very short rappel, we were
descending from a long route in Yosemite Valley after bivying on the summit
of Sentinel Rock and my partner thought it would be faster than unpacking
the harnesses. Never again.

What is the technique where you stand with arms outstretched, with the
rope wrapped once (twice?) round each arm? I've seen it done but I'm
not a climber :-)

R.

Richard .address.uk
wrote in :

What is the technique where you stand with arms outstretched, with the
rope wrapped once (twice?) round each arm? I've seen it done but I'm
not a climber :-)

Crucifixion?