Ticketing experts required!!! I commute daily by bus from North
Finchley (Z4) to central London. An Annual Bus Pass costs £440. I am
aware from this group of the benefits of paying £448 instead for a one
zone Annual Travelcard (for any zone except Z1) to receive discounted
tube singles and day Travelcards via Oyster Prepay when I occasionally
use the tube. But because of the 'grouping' of zones (eg Z3+Z4) for
pricing purposes, can I really save any money? What other savings
should I consider? FYI I have a YPR and I always use the bus for short
journeys.

Thanks, Dominic

On 21 Jul 2005 02:36:53 -0700, wrote:

But because of the 'grouping' of zones (eg Z3+Z4) for
pricing purposes, can I really save any money?

There is no real "grouping" of zones for pricing purposes - the main
thing Z3 and Z4 have in common is that the price of a single to Z1 is
the same. A Z4-Z2 journey costs more than a Z3-Z2, etc.

With a Z4 Travelcard, you would save the following amounts on Tube
journeys compared to having a bus pass:

£1.10 for each journey wholly within Z4
70p for each journey from Z4 to Z2 or Z6 (Mon-Fri 0630-1900)
20p for each journey from Z4 to Z2 or Z6 (all other times)

If that adds up to more than £8 a year, then go for it.

Of course this doesn't take into account capping, which would reduce
and eventually nullify the saving for that day, if you made several
journeys in 1 day. Also, there will be the usual fares revision in
January, which could shake everything up again.

asdf wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 02:36:53 -0700, wrote:

But because of the 'grouping' of zones (eg Z3+Z4) for
pricing purposes, can I really save any money?

There is no real "grouping" of zones for pricing purposes - the main
thing Z3 and Z4 have in common is that the price of a single to Z1 is
the same. A Z4-Z2 journey costs more than a Z3-Z2, etc.

With a Z4 Travelcard, you would save the following amounts on Tube
journeys compared to having a bus pass:

£1.10 for each journey wholly within Z4
70p for each journey from Z4 to Z2 or Z6 (Mon-Fri 0630-1900)
20p for each journey from Z4 to Z2 or Z6 (all other times)

If that adds up to more than £8 a year, then go for it.

Just to back what asdf has said - at the moment, the way the tube fares
are structured, if you had a Zone 4 Travelcard (on Oyster) and were
travelling into Zone 1, you wouldn't save any money. If you were
travelling to any zone other than Zone 1, you would save money.

(This may, as asdf has said, change when the 2006 fares are introduced,
though as there have been efforts to simplify fares in recent years I
think the only thing that'll change are the actual costs, as opposed to
the structure of the fares.)

I can't see any reason to get a Zone 2 Travelcard season (for example)
as opposed to a Zone 4 season, unless there is any particular tube or
rail journey you regularly make that's wholly within Zone 2.


Other benefits are as follows...

(1) Kids for a Quid.
Any holder of a season Travelcard (7 days or more) can buy off-peak Day
Travelcards for a £1. However, as they are supposed to travel with
you, and your Travelcard would only be valid in one zone (i.e. Zone 4)
then this isn't of much use, unless you want to travel from Finchley
Central to Mill Hill East all day.

But wait - there are other *useful* benefits! Read on...

(2) Gold Card discounts.
Any annual Travelcard is actually a 'Gold Card'. This gives you the
same discounts as a Network Railcard - i.e. 1/3 off National Rail train
fares within the London & South East area - but it doesn't suffer from
the minimum fare requirements or time restrictions of the Network
Railcard (which cannot be used before 10am on a weekday).

I know you already have a YP Railcard, so here's what makes this
potentially more useful than that. The Gold Card also gives the same
discounts for up to 3 adults travelling with you, and lets up to 4
children travel with you for a £1.


(3) Network Railcard for a partner for £1.
The Gold Card also enables you to buy a Network Railcard for your
partner for £1 (sometimes referred to as a 'Gold Card Partner's
Card'). This could be for anyone you want, a friend for example, they
don't have to be your 'significant other' as it were. A Network
Railcard would normally cost £20. Network Railcards give a similar 1/3
discount of train travel in the London & South East area, again for up
to 3 accompanying adults and 4 children.


There is no one webpage for info on the Gold Card, but these train
companies have details on these pages (you may need to scroll down a
bit). Note that if you buy your annual Travelcard from TfL, it is still
a Gold Card.

South West Trains (confusingly refers to the Gold Card as the Gold
Service):
http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...ce/default.htm

South Eastern trains:
http://www.setrains.co.uk/SETrains/P...ketDetails.htm

Thameslink:
http://www.thameslink.co.uk/main.php?page_id=148


This is the webpage detailing the Network Railcard:
http://www.railcard.co.uk/network/network.htm


So that's why you might wish to consider getting an annual Travelcard
as opposed to a Bus Pass. I would splash out on the extra £8, and if
it was of no benefit, next year I'd revert to buying a Bus Pass. I
guess eventually you'll get too old for a YP Railcard (unless you're
Peter Pan), so it might be worth it then for the Gold Card benefits -
though obviously that's no good if you're going to Scotland all the
time.

Thanks to you both. You've pointed out savings on non-Z1 journeys and
Gold Card benefits that I was unaware of. It's a shame I can't make
savings on Z1 journeys, whereas a Z3 resident could. I was expecting a
fare revision in September, when free bus travel for kids starts. Will
fares not change until January?

Thanks, Dominic

wrote:
Thanks to you both. You've pointed out savings on non-Z1 journeys and
Gold Card benefits that I was unaware of. It's a shame I can't make
savings on Z1 journeys, whereas a Z3 resident could. I was expecting a
fare revision in September, when free bus travel for kids starts. Will
fares not change until January?

Thanks, Dominic

I haven't heard anything about a fares revision in September. The
normal annual fares revision takes place at the beginning of January,
though I very much doubt the fare structure will change, just the
prices. This is because of the aforementioned simplification of the
fare structure that took place recently.