Andrew Yarnwood wrote:

Can you be sure it was the police?


Given that the BBC says it was, probably not, no.

The BBC is of course not perfect.

But would you prefer to get so-called "news" and "information" from
Rupert Murdoch and his minions?


I think Sky News is wonderful.

In this huge and complex world, Sky manages to condense the news into
a very small number of very simple stories, repeated every 15 minutes
throughout the day with very few of those irritating changes that you
see on other news channels, and which would only confuse the viewers.

;-)

MIG wrote: So we've got the world we created. Smug comments about
what was and
wasn't before Iraq don't count for much.

So what about the million or so people Irag citizens had killed in the
run up to the "war"? Certain Muslims who say they are being hard done
by seem to conveniently forget these atrocities.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:20:01 UTC, Graeme Wall
wrote:

: In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-YXUQyXn7rHWv@localhost
: "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:28:43 UTC, Graeme Wall
: wrote:

: : In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-C27MKJWQnhWC@localhost
: : "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: Or like the resistance shooting collaborators?

: : No
:
: How do you think they see themselves, then?

: "My version of whatever religion is the only true religion and anyone
: professing to be a true whatever who doesn't agree with me is a worthless
: heretic who must be eliminated for the greater good"

So why do you think they are particularly targeting the new Iraqi
police force?

Ian

Graeme Wall wrote:
In message .com
"MIG" wrote:

Can you be sure it was the police?


Given that the BBC says it was, probably not, no.

What a pathetically stupid comment.


There was a question about whether I was sure, which I responded to
flippantly, not stupidly. I have no interest in criticising the BBC,
but remember how a couple of weeks ago, wrong information from the BBC
sent loads of journalists to Hackney, interviewing people who had just
missed the bus that got blown up, even though it hadn't gone from
there. The BBC corrected it soon after.

I apologise for calling one of your comments "smug". We have political
differences. I would rather not refer to anyone's comments with words
like "pathetic" or "stupid", when it's unlikely that any of us are
pathetic or stupid and we make our comments as human beings.

So, even if I started it, I would rather we were civil about it now.

Tony Polson wrote:

Andrew Yarnwood wrote:

Can you be sure it was the police?


Given that the BBC says it was, probably not, no.

The BBC is of course not perfect.

But would you prefer to get so-called "news" and "information" from
Rupert Murdoch and his minions?


I think Sky News is wonderful.

In this huge and complex world, Sky manages to condense the news into
a very small number of very simple stories, repeated every 15 minutes
throughout the day with very few of those irritating changes that you
see on other news channels, and which would only confuse the viewers.

;-)

You've broken the code!

Did I say they saw themselves as all the same?

No, you didn't.


Presumably you are totally
unable to see a parallel between the conflicts of two subsects of
Christianity and two subsects of Islam?


I thought we were agreeing that there could be a parallel. I was
saying that there was a significant perception of outside influence and
a sense of invasion in both cases.

In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-9UteHribockb@localhost
"Ian Johnston" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:20:01 UTC, Graeme Wall
wrote:

: In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-YXUQyXn7rHWv@localhost
: "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:28:43 UTC, Graeme Wall
: wrote:

: : In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-C27MKJWQnhWC@localhost
: : "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: Or like the resistance shooting collaborators?

: : No
:
: How do you think they see themselves, then?

: "My version of whatever religion is the only true religion and anyone :
professing to be a true whatever who doesn't agree with me is a worthless
: heretic who must be eliminated for the greater good"

So why do you think they are particularly targeting the new Iraqi police
force?


Different fight, that's the remnants of Saddam's regime trying to destabilise
the new regime. There are at least 3 different wars going on in Iraq at the
moment with a potential fourth, and more than one external souce acting
either overtly or covertly on more than one side at a time. No wonder the
Americans are confused.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:44:06 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
wrote this:-

The invasion of Iraq is largely irrelevant,

That is what is being debated.

in fact it has given the
fundamentalists an in to a country they were unable to penetrate before.

That is precisely the point.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Graeme Wall wrote:
In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-d38TNJnTOPOg@localhost
"Ian Johnston" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:41:13 UTC, Graeme Wall
wrote:

: Incidentally he is not Mr Hussein, you shouldn't assume Western norms
apply in other cultures.

I had need to pass the name "Umesh Patel" over the phone yesterday. The
bloke at the other end asked if I could spell the christian name ..


My point exactly. Even the term 'forename' can be misleading in some
cultures, such as the Chinese.


Common terms are "family name" and "given name".

Graeme Wall wrote:
In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-9UteHribockb@localhost
"Ian Johnston" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:20:01 UTC, Graeme Wall
wrote:

: In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-YXUQyXn7rHWv@localhost
: "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:28:43 UTC, Graeme Wall
: wrote:

: : In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-C27MKJWQnhWC@localhost
: : "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: Or like the resistance shooting collaborators?

: : No
:
: How do you think they see themselves, then?

: "My version of whatever religion is the only true religion and anyone :
professing to be a true whatever who doesn't agree with me is a worthless
: heretic who must be eliminated for the greater good"

So why do you think they are particularly targeting the new Iraqi police
force?


Different fight, that's the remnants of Saddam's regime trying to destabilise
the new regime. There are at least 3 different wars going on in Iraq at the
moment with a potential fourth, and more than one external souce acting
either overtly or covertly on more than one side at a time. No wonder the
Americans are confused.


So the Americans are just innocent bystanders? The mind boggles.