On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:41:43 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:31:59 +0100, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote:

On 4/10/05 8:39 pm, in article
s.com, "Mizter T"
wrote:

in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story
story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares
increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre
Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***.

It is that simple.

Not if you get on the bus and find you are out of credit.

How is this different from getting on a bus and finding you are out of
money?

Because I can check first.

Remind me. Where do I get one of these Oyster credit
checkers to keep in my pocket?

So Oyster is crap because you can't keep track of something as simple
as how much pre-pay you have on it?
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

In article ,
(tim \(moved to sweden\)) wrote:

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

...
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 16:12:08 GMT,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Public transport is for the public, not just
for local people, though the actions of some provincial bus companies
(or more the inactions) may make you think otherwise.

I wouldn't expect non-residents to be EXCUDED from local 'buses etc.
But there's no Holy Writ that locals (or any other group) shouldn't
get a cheaper deal. Last time I was in the U.S. I saw a lot of
this sot of thing. Local facilities such as swimming pools had a
resident's price and an outsider's price. The residents had paid
for it through local taxation - they got a reduction.

This goes along with the whole idea of local taxation, doesn't it?

You might think this. The Burghers of Brussels do not.

Most of the rest of Europe has tourist taxes so the playing field is
more level and everyone pays.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:57:59 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Rundle"
wrote:

Yes, stamps inscribed 1st and 2nd were introduced in 1990. So, it
depends on your definition of "recent" I guess.

They weren't universal, I think. I have had stamps (1st/2nd) marked
with the price much more recently than that, as I recall.

You can still buy stamps with cash values on if you prefer.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

TKD wrote in article
...
Why do you want Cheap Day Returns to vanish ?

Because on Oyster from next year a return from Zone 6
to Zone 2 will cost £2 (£1 each way).

How do NR CDRs compare with this?

Currently (M-F for prepay)

Surbiton(6) to Clapham Junction(2) a CDR is 3.50 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 3.60 and a day TC Z2-6 is 4.00

Surbiton(6) to London Terminals (1) a CDR is 4.00 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 7.00 and a day TC Z1-6 is 6.00

So I think that the income of the TOCs from 'shoppers' is going to fall
and the TOCs will want Ken to repay them and the CDR buyers who don't
use the Tube from London Terminals will feel themselves the victims of
sharp practice.

Buyers of single rail tickets will gain and I expect the TOCs will want
payment for that too. Prices from just outside the Zone 6 boundary will
probably look rather odd.

--
Mike D



--
Mike D

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:39:31 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:27:58 on Sat, 8 Oct
2005, "tim (moved to sweden)" remarked:
And as I have posted before,
IME it is common for non first language English speakers not to
be able to tell the difference between the various English language
countries' accents (strange as it may seem to you and I).

It's worse than that. Many Americans can't tell the difference (in
accent) between English and Australian.

And many English people can't tell the difference between American and
Canadian.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On 8 Oct 2005 23:31:16 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Why do you want Cheap Day Returns to vanish ?

Because on Oyster from next year a return from Zone 6
to Zone 2 will cost £2 (£1 each way).

How do NR CDRs compare with this?

Currently (M-F for prepay)

Surbiton(6) to Clapham Junction(2) a CDR is 3.50 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 3.60 and a day TC Z2-6 is 4.00

Like the post you're replying to says, next year the 2 x pre-pay will
only be 2.00.

Surbiton(6) to London Terminals (1) a CDR is 4.00 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 7.00 and a day TC Z1-6 is 6.00

Since we're talking about CDRs and therefore off-peak travel, the 2 x
pre-pay would be 5.70.

Anyway, is it necessarily the case that if pre-pay were introduced on
NR, the fares would have to be the same as tube fares? Would they have
to be zonal at all?

So I think that the income of the TOCs from 'shoppers' is going to fall
and the TOCs will want Ken to repay them and the CDR buyers who don't
use the Tube from London Terminals will feel themselves the victims of
sharp practice.

Buyers of single rail tickets will gain and I expect the TOCs will want
payment for that too.

Was a special deal with the relevant TOCs needed to get pre-pay
introduced (including £2 evening/weekend singles) on routes such as
Upminster to Fenchurch Street, and especially Harrow & Wealdstone to
Euston (where tube single/return paper tickets weren't and aren't
valid)?

Prices from just outside the Zone 6 boundary will
probably look rather odd.

Perhaps. Hopefully pre-pay will not ultimately be confined to the
Travelcard zones though.

Anyway, is it necessarily the case that if pre-pay were introduced on
NR, the fares would have to be the same as tube fares? Would they have
to be zonal at all?

I would imagine part of the "discussions" between TfL and the TOCs is
about this. If they introduce a different system of fares for NR it will
mean increased costs to program the Oyster system, the system will
also be more complex for users and will be far more complicated to
update when fares change. None of this is desirable to TfL or users.

How would the system cope with changing from a line on one tariff to
another or the tube or DLR without even more of those on-platform
validators? Plenty of interchange opportunites exist. Would you be
charged differently if you don't validate half-way. Would anyone
understand when they need to and when they don't? Most people do
not understand if they need to at the start and end of their journey let
alone the middle.

Was a special deal with the relevant TOCs needed to get pre-pay
introduced (including £2 evening/weekend singles) on routes such as
Upminster to Fenchurch Street, and especially Harrow & Wealdstone to
Euston (where tube single/return paper tickets weren't and aren't
valid)?

The special deal already existed for Fenchurch-Upminster. British Rail
(and their successors) had agreed to accept all tickets issued by London
Underground and vice-versa from long ago so Oyster is just another form
of LU ticketing which comes under that agreement. Some agreement must
have been made for the sale of Oyster in the c2c ticket offices though.

In message , Neil Williams
writes

It probably makes sense for those who exclusively or principally
supply education (given the reference to academia and teaching above),
but that doesn't apply to most of the rest of the world.

The companies I was referring to are printers and publishers, not
educational suppliers.

--
Paul Terry

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:03:42 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , Neil Williams
writes

It probably makes sense for those who exclusively or principally
supply education (given the reference to academia and teaching above),
but that doesn't apply to most of the rest of the world.

The companies I was referring to are printers and publishers,

That's funny. I deal with a number of companies in that field, and
(still) have never come across it.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

John Rowland wrote:

There is no need to make the whole of London prepaid only, just the
well-used stops. There would be no confusion for passengers, because the bus
stops that had machines would be prepaid-only, and those that didn't
wouldn't.

But surely isn't the plan to make all buses cash free? In which case I'm
sure there will be stops without machines plus of course lengthy sections
of hail & ride services. In those cases I can see that passengers will have
to have a valid ticket, pass or prepay in hand before boarding.

What I find bizarre is that the W7 machines are, or at least were, W7-only.
Why allow people to buy tickets on a 144 or W3 at a stop that has a ticket
machine for the W7?

AFAIK the single tickets are valid for any route subject to the usual
condition of being used with in one hour of purchase.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk