Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Harry
Spencer) wrote:

"TKD" wrote in message
...
TfL had better start building all those extra lines now if they
want to stand a chance of getting them in place by 2016, not to
mention John Prestcott building the houses for the extra people to
live in. Then there is schools, shops, pubs etc etc.

The article suggests an increase in demand for rail and tube and
then goes on to say it is mostly expected to come from trains, so new
tube lines sound unlikely.

I don't follow that logic. The reference in the article is chair of
the panel for the South East; the South East area -excludes- London, so
his reference is purely in relation to train travel from settlements
from outside the London Boroughs -into- London. Those people still
have ultimate destinations to reach, which unless they work in close
proximity to the terminus (e.g. Paddington Basin or Broadgate) then
they still have to take another mode of transport after their train
journey.

This would also imply that the increase on the
tube alone is somewhat less than 24% if most of the new capacity
needed is expected to come from rail.

See above. The article is particularly poorly written, throwing in
London's own predicted population increase at the end. Surprised they
didn't pick up on the latest ONS population predictions as well, now
that's when it gets busy!

The article assumes the completion of Crossrail. That's quite a bit of
extra capacity.

--
Colin Rosenstiel
Bearing in mind that some of the biggest growths in population will be
around Stevenage and Harlow, Crossrail will have no benefit.

Kevin

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article , (Harry
Spencer) wrote:

"TKD" wrote in message
...

TfL had better start building all those extra lines now if they want
to stand a chance of getting them in place by 2016, not to mention
John Prestcott building the houses for the extra people to live in.
Then there is schools, shops, pubs etc etc.

The article suggests an increase in demand for rail and tube and then
goes on to say it is mostly expected to come from trains, so new tube
lines sound unlikely. This would also imply that the increase on the
tube alone is somewhat less than 24% if most of the new capacity
needed is expected to come from rail.

See above. The article is particularly poorly written, throwing in
London's own predicted population increase at the end. Surprised they
didn't pick up on the latest ONS population predictions as well, now
that's when it gets busy!

The article assumes the completion of Crossrail. That's quite a bit of
extra capacity.

Bearing in mind that some of the biggest growths in population will be
around Stevenage and Harlow,

Interesting; i didn't know that. Could i ask what your source for that is?

Crossrail will have no benefit.

Crossrail may well have a knock-on effect on Harlow, at least: Crossrail
will relieve Liverpool Street, and since that's the terminus for trains
from Harlow, it should provide capacity to make those more frequent.

tom

--
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO ARRIVE MAKE ALTERNATIVE TRAVEL ARRANGEMENTS. --
Robin May

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Bearing in mind that some of the biggest growths in population will be
around Stevenage and Harlow,

Interesting; i didn't know that. Could i ask what your source for that is?

It's been planned for years. Central Government's 'Sustainable Communities
Plan' (available on ODPM website), and more recently, Draft Regional Spatial
Strategy 14 'The East of England Plan' (available on EERA and GOEE websites)
the Public Inquiry into the latter opens in November.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, Harry Spencer wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Bearing in mind that some of the biggest growths in population will be
around Stevenage and Harlow,

Interesting; i didn't know that. Could i ask what your source for that is?

It's been planned for years. Central Government's 'Sustainable
Communities Plan' (available on ODPM website), and more recently, Draft
Regional Spatial Strategy 14 'The East of England Plan' (available on
EERA and GOEE websites) the Public Inquiry into the latter opens in
November.

Cheers - i'll have a read.

tom

--
sh(1) was the first MOO

wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Harry
Spencer) wrote:

"TKD" wrote in message
...
TfL had better start building all those extra lines now if they
want to stand a chance of getting them in place by 2016, not to
mention John Prestcott building the houses for the extra people to
live in. Then there is schools, shops, pubs etc etc.
The article suggests an increase in demand for rail and tube and
then goes on to say it is mostly expected to come from trains, so new
tube lines sound unlikely.
I don't follow that logic. The reference in the article is chair of
the panel for the South East; the South East area -excludes- London, so
his reference is purely in relation to train travel from settlements
from outside the London Boroughs -into- London. Those people still
have ultimate destinations to reach, which unless they work in close
proximity to the terminus (e.g. Paddington Basin or Broadgate) then
they still have to take another mode of transport after their train
journey.

This would also imply that the increase on the
tube alone is somewhat less than 24% if most of the new capacity
needed is expected to come from rail.
See above. The article is particularly poorly written, throwing in
London's own predicted population increase at the end. Surprised they
didn't pick up on the latest ONS population predictions as well, now
that's when it gets busy!
The article assumes the completion of Crossrail. That's quite a bit of
extra capacity.

Bearing in mind that some of the biggest growths in population will be
around Stevenage and Harlow, Crossrail will have no benefit.

Somewhat untrue. Crossrail will have huge benefits - in the order of
£20bn at the last estimate. It may have minor benefits to the new
residents in Stevenage and Harlow, but certainly not zero. As Tom said,
Crossrail releases capacity into Liverpool St for Harlow trains, and it
will also provide rapid access and increased capacity to the West End
and Canary Wharf for passengers from Stevenage changing off Thameslink
at Farringdon.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:


Somewhat untrue. Crossrail will have huge benefits - in the order of
£20bn at the last estimate. It may have minor benefits to the new
residents in Stevenage and Harlow, but certainly not zero. As Tom said,
Crossrail releases capacity into Liverpool St for Harlow trains, and it
will also provide rapid access and increased capacity to the West End
and Canary Wharf for passengers from Stevenage changing off Thameslink
at Farringdon.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London
Whilst Crossrail releases capacity at Liverpool St it does nothing
about increasing capacity on the double track section as far as
Cheshunt. I don't know how much more capacity there is and even if
there was is there any spare further south.

Kevin

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

Somewhat untrue. Crossrail will have huge benefits - in the order of
£20bn at the last estimate. It may have minor benefits to the new
residents in Stevenage and Harlow, but certainly not zero. As Tom said,
Crossrail releases capacity into Liverpool St for Harlow trains, and it
will also provide rapid access and increased capacity to the West End
and Canary Wharf for passengers from Stevenage changing off Thameslink
at Farringdon.

Whilst Crossrail releases capacity at Liverpool St it does nothing about
increasing capacity on the double track section as far as Cheshunt. I
don't know how much more capacity there is and even if there was is
there any spare further south.

Indeed - the critical section is between Clapton junction, where the Lea
Valley and Chingford branches join, and Hackney, where the line goes
four-track; this stretch carries all the traffic from outside London, plus
all the suburban traffic from the Lea Valley and Chingford branches, all
on one pair of tracks (i'm ignoring the southern extent of the Lea Valley
line, which goes to Stratford, for now).

However, at the moment, the approach to Liverpool Street, which consists
of four tracks, handles all this, plus the suburban trains from the
Enfield/Southbury branch, plus all the Great Eastern traffic. It seems
unlikely to me that four tracks could do that if the Clapton section was
running at full capacity. I used to live less than a hundred metres from
that line, and it certainly didn't seem like it was to me.

BICBW.

tom

--
see im down wid yo sci fi crew