On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:17:57 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

But I still feel that PAYG is a daft term for Oyster, since TfL want it
to be a replacement for cash fares which really are PAYG and don't have
a £3 initial charge.

Perhaps cash fares will be rebranded as "Pay through the nose" from January.

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly
a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

Barry Salter wrote:

What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually
compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO)
specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines
handle Oyster.

Surely just having an extra piece of equipment in the booking office
(similiar to that used by pass agents) for Oyster products would be the
logical way round it?


--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually
compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO)
specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines
handle Oyster.

Surely just having an extra piece of equipment in the booking office
(similiar to that used by pass agents) for Oyster products would be the
logical way round it?

Exactly what they have at Fenchurch Street. When you buy a ticket on Oyster
they use a reader/writer on a counter behind them.

TKD wrote:

Exactly what they have at Fenchurch Street. When you buy a ticket on Oyster
they use a reader/writer on a counter behind them.

So there you go. NR stations simply become Pass Agents selling the full
range of Oyster Products. In addition I'm sure an upgrade of the equipment
you see in your friendly newsagent could be applied to sell the full range
of TfL products.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

asdf wrote
[...]
Harrow & Wealdstone to East Croydon (on the direct service): Standard
Day Single £6.00; Cheap Day Single £3.60. Next year the Tube/DLR -
Train fare will be £3.40.

I would take "and are the maximum that you will pay..." to mean that
the (NR) ticket offices at H&W or EC would sell you this ticket
instead of the NR singles, as it's cheaper, even though the journey
doesn't include a Tube/DLR leg.

The implication is for some routes these will represent bad value if
the
rail companies fare (+ the tube journey) is much less than the
combined
ticket.

Perhaps the ticket office would sell an "old style" combined ticket
in
this case.

For a single this is unlikely but since in your example even an Z1-6
Travelcard is less than twice a £3.40 fare and a CDR is £3.70 (£5.30
using Tube) the ticket office would also have to ask if you were
leaving after 9:30 and if you were coming back today or going elsewhere
in the London area today.

--
Mike D

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly
a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of 200%.
If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and explained
properly by staff surely only the insane would resist migration to Oyster?

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:59:50 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:54:37 +0100, Clive
wrote:

On the Parliamentary channel the other day was London assembly questions
to Ken Livingston who said that NR had been offered full installation of
oyster readers in the GLA but didn't want to know, so now was
considering taking all the railways in the GLA under the TfL umbrella.

What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually
compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO)
specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines
handle Oyster.

Which only matters if the TOCs are going to take up smartcards as a
form of ticket. IMO smartcards are not passenger friendly form of
ticketing which can just about be tolerated for urban servcies but are
not acceptable for longer journeys.

Members of ITSO include the "Big 5" bus companies (Arriva, First,
Go-Ahead, NatEx and Stagecoach), ATOC, various ticketing system
manufacturers (Almex, Ascom, ATOS Origin and Cubic Transportation), most
of the PTEs, BT, BemroseBooth (who supply most of the ticket blanks to
the TOCs) and the Department for Transport.

So it's not entirely unreasonable for the train companies to be
unwilling to spend a not unsubstantial sum of money installing gates
and/or Oyster validators at all the stations in the zonal area if
there's no guarantee that the same hardware will be capable of accepting
a potential future *national* smartcard system, as at the end of the
day, that money will have to come from their passengers, either directly
through the farebox, or via increased subsidy from the taxpayer.

They may agree that smartcards are not the way to go and have joined
ITSO to keep the authorities quiet
--
Peter Lawrence

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so
its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so
its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are permitted
to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a card.

Phil Richards wrote:
So if TfL want to make their Oyster product sound like mobile phones,
perhaps they should consider another option whereby you get billed and pay
by direct debit (or credit card) at the end of each month according to your
usage.

Vastly increases the possibility of fraud and non-payment.

Also means they don't get the money in advance to merrily cream the interest
from.

Raoul.