"TKD" wrote in message
. ..

Epping was only added to the TfL zone system recently (1998ish) -
previously, the stations on the Epping branch of the Central Line outside
of Greater London behaved like the Met stations beyond Moor Park do now.
The idea is to simplify life for Tube travellers (and for TfL
ticketing!). The stations around Hainault, many of which are also in
Essex, were in the zone stysem from the start to simplify life for
passengers going round the loop.

All of the stations on the Hainult loop are within walking distance of the
Greater
London boundary. The main reason for there inclusion was probably so a
journey
from Woodford to Hainault (both in London) would not be charged
excessively
because of passing briefly into Essex.

In fact, the only station on the Hainault loop outside Greater London is
Chigwell.

Grange Hill and Roding Valley are right on the boundary line.

"TKD" wrote in message
. ..

Then there's Dartford. It's hard for customers on the 3 north Kent
parallels to get from one line to the other without going back to
Lewisham which might not be in their zone. Is it permitted to change
trains at either Dartford or Lewisham on a travelcard if you promise
not to leave the station?

An anomaly is that holders of freedom passes can use Dartford station.



and travel to Amersham, Chesham and Watford!

Well i'd love to get an answer to what i've been wondering for years
now. How come Watford Junction isn't in the travelcard zones when it is
nearer to london than say, Epping? It's even within the M25 area! I
used to think it was because Virgin stopped there but Virgin don't let
people travel to Watford from London.

The basic reasoning, as I understand it, is that Hertfordshire County
Council don't "pay in" to the TfL "pot", so the stations there aren't in
the Travelcard zones.

Essex County Council, meanwhile, *do* pay into the pot, which is why the
stations out to Epping are in Zone 6.

or Zone 5.

TKD wrote:
Well i'd love to get an answer to what i've been wondering for years
now. How come Watford Junction isn't in the travelcard zones when it is
nearer to london than say, Epping? It's even within the M25 area! I
used to think it was because Virgin stopped there but Virgin don't let
people travel to Watford from London.

The basic reasoning, as I understand it, is that Hertfordshire County
Council don't "pay in" to the TfL "pot", so the stations there aren't in
the Travelcard zones.

Essex County Council, meanwhile, *do* pay into the pot, which is why the
stations out to Epping are in Zone 6.

or Zone 5.

Typical local authority parsimony!
One little known fact about Watford is that it was planned in the
1930's for Watford to become part of the London 7 figure telephone area
in the early 1940's. This was not proceeded with, possibly because of
wartime priorities, and the plan was not revived after the war.

In article .com,
(AnnieslandJohn) wrote:

TKD wrote:
Well i'd love to get an answer to what i've been wondering for
years now. How come Watford Junction isn't in the travelcard zones
when it is nearer to london than say, Epping? It's even within the
M25 area! I used to think it was because Virgin stopped there but
Virgin don't let people travel to Watford from London.

The basic reasoning, as I understand it, is that Hertfordshire
County Council don't "pay in" to the TfL "pot", so the stations
there aren't in the Travelcard zones.

Essex County Council, meanwhile, *do* pay into the pot, which is
why the stations out to Epping are in Zone 6.

or Zone 5.

Typical local authority parsimony!
One little known fact about Watford is that it was planned in the
1930's for Watford to become part of the London 7 figure telephone
area in the early 1940's. This was not proceeded with, possibly
because of wartime priorities, and the plan was not revived after the
war.

You can blame that on the Metropolitan Green Belt, aimed at stopping
London going on sprawling after the War.

The Herbert report in the early 1960s did, however, advocate Watford
(and some other places like Epsom) becoming part of Greater London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message .com, at
13:11:43 on Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Mizter T remarked:
Also I read a story on the Kingston Times website that says SWT are
considering extending Zone 6 out to "stations such as Esher, Hinchley
Wood and Claygate" [3].

Those three stations are all within the extended urban sprawl that is
London. And Hinchley Wood even has 020 phone numbers (to the east of the
railways line). To that extent they "deserve" to be in Z6 just as much
as Thames Ditton and Hampton Court.

The next stations out, however, are outside that sprawl (just).
--
Roland Perry

Orienteer ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Then there's Dartford. It's hard for customers on the 3 north Kent
parallels to get from one line to the other without going back to
Lewisham which might not be in their zone. Is it permitted to change
trains at either Dartford or Lewisham on a travelcard if you promise
not to leave the station?

An anomaly is that holders of freedom passes can use Dartford station.

and travel to Amersham, Chesham and Watford!

They're in the tube zone system, though.

TKD wrote:
Then there's Dartford. It's hard for customers on the 3 north Kent
parallels to get from one line to the other without going back to
Lewisham which might not be in their zone. Is it permitted to change
trains at either Dartford or Lewisham on a travelcard if you promise
not to leave the station?

An anomaly is that holders of freedom passes can use Dartford station.


I while ago, I thought I remembered (or had dreamed) a proposal or rule
change to allow people to travel through a zone without getting off
without a ticket for that zone. I wrongly thought it might be the
central zone, but I am thinking now that it must have been to do with
travelling through an outer zone.

If that rule change or proposal was true, one would be able to travel
from, say, Belvedere to Albany Park with just a zone 5 ticket.

It could still be a figment of my deranged imagination.

"MIG" wrote in message
oups.com...

TKD wrote:
Then there's Dartford. It's hard for customers on the 3 north Kent
parallels to get from one line to the other without going back to
Lewisham which might not be in their zone. Is it permitted to change
trains at either Dartford or Lewisham on a travelcard if you promise
not to leave the station?

An anomaly is that holders of freedom passes can use Dartford station.


I while ago, I thought I remembered (or had dreamed) a proposal or rule
change to allow people to travel through a zone without getting off
without a ticket for that zone. I wrongly thought it might be the
central zone, but I am thinking now that it must have been to do with
travelling through an outer zone.

If that rule change or proposal was true, one would be able to travel
from, say, Belvedere to Albany Park with just a zone 5 ticket.

It could still be a figment of my deranged imagination.

I think it must have been. IIRC, the zones for NLL stations were fiddled
some time ago to ensure that it was necessary to hold a 2-zone ticket (Zones
2 and 3) for most journeys - even so, if there are any commuters between
North Woolwich and Kew Gardens they get a bargain, as long as they don't
decamp at West Ham and go the rest of tHe way by LUL District Line.

Peter

Roland Perry wrote in
:

In message .com, at
13:11:43 on Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Mizter T remarked:
Also I read a story on the Kingston Times website that says SWT are
considering extending Zone 6 out to "stations such as Esher, Hinchley
Wood and Claygate" [3].

Those three stations are all within the extended urban sprawl that is
London. And Hinchley Wood even has 020 phone numbers (to the east of
the railways line). To that extent they "deserve" to be in Z6 just as
much as Thames Ditton and Hampton Court.

The next stations out, however, are outside that sprawl (just).

The real anomaly is the Tattenham Corner line: because of the way the
Greater London boundary is routed, you can travel further out of central
London to Couldson, but then when you turn back north again, ending up
closer to London than you were before, you are outside the boundary.
Similarly Epsom and Epsom Downs are a lot closer into London than Coulsdon.

In these cases, I wonder whether I'm being cynical in thinking that it's
done like this make visitors to Epsom racetrack pay as much as possible ;-)

You'd think that it would make sense for the boundaries between one "county"
and another to be moved from time to time to take account of any urban
sprawl of a city on the boundary, so as always to avoid splitting that city.
The conurbation of Reading is split between Reading, West Berkshire and
Wokingham, when it would be much better for the boundary to be moved so it
runs through sparsely-populated areas between Reading and the surrounding
villages. Likewise for London - though where you (literally!) draw the line
between London and its surroundings is a more difficult one!