CJB wrote:
snip
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.
/snip

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

John Band wrote:

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12598536.html
(57 601 at Stableford, 6 Jan 2005)

Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

John Band wrote:
Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...


But they are still allowed to travel into London by the Piccadilly
Line.

Another question is, was the TfL station at Heathrow open and selling
travelcards that new arrivals in London were directed to buy if they
were planning to travel elsewhere than just to Paddington that day?

Or would such people be directed to the only station that was open and
buy the only tickets available?

John Band wrote:
The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at Heathrow,
went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on HEX
irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into paying
for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad, and I
had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to spend any
time looking for a second ticket office that might be selling more
appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to. I would expect
the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I needed without me
having to have any inside knowledge of the local situation, and I think
most real-world travellers would agree it's a reasonable expectation.

It isn't as if Londoners actually gain anything (other than a perverse
pleasure at the misfortune of others) if visitors pay more than they
need to in such circumstances as this.

Chris Tolley wrote:
John Band wrote:

The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at Heathrow,
went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on HEX
irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into paying
for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...


I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad, and I
had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to spend any
time looking for a second ticket office that might be selling more
appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to. I would expect
the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I needed without me
having to have any inside knowledge of the local situation, and I think
most real-world travellers would agree it's a reasonable expectation.

It isn't as if Londoners actually gain anything (other than a perverse
pleasure at the misfortune of others) if visitors pay more than they
need to in such circumstances as this.

Good will has to be worth something. I still remember the time I turned
up at the NIR station in Londonderry (it was on the east side of the
river, the signs on the west side all said Derry, I know I'm going to
offend someone no matter how I write the name), asked for a ticket to
Belfast, and the woman told me that a day return would be cheaper. This
was 1992.

I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.

If I'm sold a HEX ticket when a travelcard would have worked, I wouldn't
call it a ripoff (a ripoff is when a waiter in Paris tried to charge me
the menu price *plus* the prices of all the individual items); it's
more of a passive-aggressive display, somewhere between indifference and
contempt. Things can't be that bad, can they? Or was it a HEX
management decision not to tell anyone?

We don't get nearly as many tourists here in the backwaters of Colorado
as you do in the UK, but I try to be helpful when I can. When I struck
up a conversation with a New Zealander I met on the bus in Denver and
learned that he was on his way to the old location of the American Youth
Hostel, I informed him that the Hostel had moved, the original
building had been adopted by the Moonies, and perhaps he'd like
directions to the new location. It was the right thing to do.

Louis
Boulder, Colorado

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:57 -0700, Louis Krupp wrote:

I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.


Hello Louis

I used to work as a ticket collector on London Underground, and one thing I
noticed about visitors from north America is that they would often truncate
the station name they wanted directions for. So for example, they often
asked me for the way to "Liverpool".

After a while you realise they mean the tube station "Liverpool Street",
but "Liverpool" is a large city in northwest England, so the question is a
bit ambiguous. I mean, you're doing it yourself there, by saying you were
asking the way to "Glasgow", when what I presume you meant was "Glasgow
Queen Street" It would be good if visitors from the US and Canada could
be encouraged to use the full names of the stations they want to go to.

I'm surprised about your experience in Glasgow though. That must just have
been bad luck, because I go up there often and my experience is that people
in Glasgow are generally very helpful and honest.
--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest achievement of the thinkers of the Sixties was
to convince their audience that incomprehensibility was the
sign of greatness.

Luc Ferry and Alain Renault

loobyloo wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:57 -0700, Louis Krupp wrote:


I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.



Hello Louis

I used to work as a ticket collector on London Underground, and one thing I
noticed about visitors from north America is that they would often truncate
the station name they wanted directions for. So for example, they often
asked me for the way to "Liverpool".

After a while you realise they mean the tube station "Liverpool Street",
but "Liverpool" is a large city in northwest England, so the question is a
bit ambiguous. I mean, you're doing it yourself there, by saying you were
asking the way to "Glasgow", when what I presume you meant was "Glasgow
Queen Street" It would be good if visitors from the US and Canada could
be encouraged to use the full names of the stations they want to go to.

I'm surprised about your experience in Glasgow though. That must just have
been bad luck, because I go up there often and my experience is that people
in Glasgow are generally very helpful and honest.

My mistake in my previous post -- I showed up at Glasgow Central wanting
to go to Edinburgh (not Glasgow, as I originally said). Sorry about
that. (Wait two hours was an honest answer, follow the signs to Queen
Street would have been more helpful. Still, I got where I was going.)

You're right about Glaswegians, though. One of them is (or at least
was) a police officer in Nederland, Colorado. Great guy.

Louis

"loobyloo" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:57 -0700, Louis Krupp wrote:

I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.


Hello Louis

I used to work as a ticket collector on London Underground, and one thing
I
noticed about visitors from north America is that they would often
truncate
the station name they wanted directions for. So for example, they often
asked me for the way to "Liverpool".

That's because it's quite common in the US to call streets by their name,
and omit the "boulevard/street/whatever" that comes after it. I have
American friends in London, and they do it all the time. Doing it with road
names is pretty silly, considering most colloquial names for old roads are
simply the terminating town/city of the road, followed usually by "road".
Of course, dropping the "road" changes things considerably. "Essex Road"
becomes "Essex", which is an entirely different kettle of fish

After a while you realise they mean the tube station "Liverpool Street",
but "Liverpool" is a large city in northwest England, so the question is a
bit ambiguous. I mean, you're doing it yourself there, by saying you were
asking the way to "Glasgow", when what I presume you meant was "Glasgow
Queen Street" It would be good if visitors from the US and Canada
could
be encouraged to use the full names of the stations they want to go to.

I'm surprised about your experience in Glasgow though. That must just
have
been bad luck, because I go up there often and my experience is that
people
in Glasgow are generally very helpful and honest.
--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest achievement of the thinkers of the Sixties was
to convince their audience that incomprehensibility was the
sign of greatness.

Luc Ferry and Alain Renault

Louis Krupp wrote:

Chris Tolley wrote:
John Band wrote:

We don't get nearly as many tourists here in the backwaters of Colorado
as you do in the UK, but I try to be helpful when I can. When I struck
up a conversation with a New Zealander I met on the bus in Denver and
learned that he was on his way to the old location of the American Youth
Hostel, I informed him that the Hostel had moved, the original
building had been adopted by the Moonies, and perhaps he'd like
directions to the new location. It was the right thing to do.

Louis
Boulder, Colorado

Louis, the hospitality you mention seems to be local trait. We spent 3
weeks in Colorado back in Summer 2005. One only had to glance at a
directional sign when walking around in Denver, Golden or Boulder to
have a local person stop and ask if one needed any help. Boulder in
particular has a very unique character. Found my favourite shop in your
"high street" called "Into The Wind", I've never seen so many kits and
frisbees in one place, very colourful! The bus interchange was another
example of local hospitality. I accidentally put a $20 bill into the
automated machine by the driver instead of a five. The driver spotted
the mistake but the machine is a sealed unit. Other locals behind me in
the queue boarded for free at the drivers bidding and gave me their
fares to make up the difference. We made several friends in the short
time we were there, can't wait to go back.