Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

Martin Underwood wrote:

If the signs said that travelcards were not valid (which I think is what you
are saying) when in fact they were valid, then passenger were being wrongly
advised to buy the more expensive ticket. It's one thing not to advertise
and promote the cheaper ticket (though that's bad enough); it's another
thing entirely to give explicit information that cons people into buying a
more expensive ticket that they don't need.

As I recall, the Paddington PIS displays show the above note.
Presumably someone forgot to reprogram them.

It's a difficult one, really... I would suggest the best option would
be to make Travelcards valid on Heathrow Connect only, and not on HEx.
That way, the premium product could remain.

Neil

CJB wrote:
Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line
was closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow
Express was supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the
Underground system it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6
Travelcards WERE valid on the Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on
them for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets
at £14. I personally warned at least two intending passengers from
using these and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket
office, thus saving each person more than £7.

In the full list of tickets accepted on HEx on Piccadilly closure
weekends at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...nd-closure.asp , it
specifically says *LU* Zone 1-6 Travelcards. I'm not sure if that means
that FGWL-issued Travelcards are not valid. I hope the people who took
your advice didn't get stung for a £14 fare on top of an FGWL
Travelcard.

[...]
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to
rip-off Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare
tickets into London? Probably most of them.

If they went to the HEx desk at Heathrow, they would be charged the HEx
fare. If they went to the LU station they would be advised to buy a
Z1-6 Travelcard there and then walk round the corner to the HEx station
and get on a HEx train (or HC to Ealing Broadway). At least that's what
happened last year at T123; I haven't experienced T4 on such weekends.

LU pay HEx so that LU's passengers can travel on HEx without further
charge. There's no reason why they should also subsidise people who
were going to buy a HEx ticket in the first place, nor are such people
being ripped off.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

Rumour has it there will be, when the bomb drops. To keep the
contaminated hordes IN.

John Band wrote:
Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...


But they are still allowed to travel into London by the Piccadilly
Line.

Another question is, was the TfL station at Heathrow open and selling
travelcards that new arrivals in London were directed to buy if they
were planning to travel elsewhere than just to Paddington that day?

Or would such people be directed to the only station that was open and
buy the only tickets available?

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called "fraud".

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In ,
d typed:

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In oups.com,
CJB typed:

... we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express.

I travelled on Heathrow Express with a Z1-6 ODTC on Sunday as I have
done several times when the facility has been available. The only
signs that I saw said that Travelcards other than Z1-6 were not
valid. Are you sure you are not mistaken? Did you take a photo of
one of
these notices so that you could send it to TfL to complain that
Heathrow Express were not acting as contracted to do.

They're only contracted to accept the tickets on the service, not to
sell them as the only tickets on the service... I don't think CJB
realises the arrangement is to allow LUL travellers the ability to
travel, not to turn HEX into a branch of the underground for one
weekend.


But he said that there were notices saying that TravelCards were not
valid. I don't think I believe him.

--
Bob

"Martin Underwood" wrote:

I'd like to see all ticket offices run by a separate, impartial company
which was on the side of the passenger and which was obliged by law always
to sell the cheapest ticket or combination of tickets so that a passenger
can say "can you sell me a ticket [implied "the cheapest ticket"] between
A
and B", without needing to be an expert on the ticketing system in order
to
get the best deal.

Not everyone wants the cheapest ticket. Many people value their time more
than their money, and hence travel by fGW to Exeter, rather than the scenic
tour of Dorset villages that SWT provide for half the price.

Self-evidently, people who routinely travel First Class don't want the
cheapest ticket.

The cheap fares are there for the asking. People who know nothing about rail
travel are, of course, at a disadvantage, but then people who know nothing
lose out in all sorts of ways - that's life.

I'm more concerned about booking office staff who flatly deny that certain
ticket types exist, because either they've not been trained, or it's too
much hassle to look up the correct sequence of key strokes to press.

Chris

"Bob Wood" wrote in
:



But he said that there were notices saying that TravelCards were not
valid. I don't think I believe him.


None of the standard displays had been changed. The main indicator at
Paddington was certainly stating "Travelcards not valid", as were the
(automatic) train announcments. I think the platform indicators were as
well.

I overheard one mobile conversation along the lines of "I'm going to be
late and I've just forked out £ 16.00 rather than take two hours at get to
Hammersmith".

John Band wrote:
The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at Heathrow,
went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on HEX
irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into paying
for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad, and I
had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to spend any
time looking for a second ticket office that might be selling more
appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to. I would expect
the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I needed without me
having to have any inside knowledge of the local situation, and I think
most real-world travellers would agree it's a reasonable expectation.

It isn't as if Londoners actually gain anything (other than a perverse
pleasure at the misfortune of others) if visitors pay more than they
need to in such circumstances as this.