In message , BH Williams
writes

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
In message
"Ronnie Clark" wrote:

[snip]
....actual edits were extremely rare in the
first series. This was due to the only way of editing being to physically
cut the 2 inch tape and splice it together. "An Unearthly Child" contains
one edit approximately half-way through.

You had to coat the recorded side of the tape with a special fluid to show
up
the recording tracks and then cut carefully between the tracks using a
special jig. Programmes were charged 50 quid an edit, which was a fortune
in
those days.

In Tyne Tees we used to edit a football match review in a hurry on 2" tape.
I can't remember the name of the programme, maybe "the Big Match".

Anyway a famous local derby between Newcastle and Sunderland was edited very
fast, between the end of the programme and transmission, where we developed
the control track, cut bits out, and then left the only goal hanging on the
back of the door. (You could only see the content when you ran it over the
video heads.)

The Toon army never let us hear the end of that one!

Heh! TWW sent one 16mm film unit to a football match. All 4 goals came
when they were changing magazines.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:58:58 -0000, "Martin Underwood" a@b wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote in message
:

In message
"Ronnie Clark" wrote:

It was quite some time before more advanced editing techniques made
it possible to record a whole serial in one go, however I vaguely
recall that it started in the middle of the third series.

Not quite sure what you mean by this, presumably you are referring to
the advent of electronic editing.

What was it that precluded electronic editing by dubbing from one tape to
another, as they did until a few years ago? Was it simply that copying from
one tape to another in the early days brought the quality below acceptible
broadcast standards?


Not exactly.

It was that at the join the to get an imperceptible edit the sync
pulses had to be continuous, and take into account that Broadcast TV
used interlaced scanning with even and odd frames so a complete even
frame should be joined onto a complete odd frame, (& vica -versa) or a
disturbance would be apparent on viewer's sets, (18 million sets would
do a frame roll (at least) &/or display a noise band/ lose line hold.

The VTR's "control track" was also written onto the tape along with
the sound and video, this kept the heads running down the middle of
the tracks written on the tape, and a gap in this might mean the
playback VTR's servos went out of lock and the heads lost their
tracking taking some time, maybe a few seconds, to lock back in.

Also as the splice went through it 's possible that oxide/ adhesive
/clag would be ripped of the tape and cause a head clog. Video tape
was expensive but I doubt if a tape with a physical edit in it would
be re-used to record a new programme because of this risk.

I can't remember seeing physical videotape edits going through on the
telly, though "Non-Sync Cuts" were fairly common into the early '70s,
where millions of home TV's would Colour Kill, and Frame Roll,
especially cutting to/from inserts from Europe or Ireland.

Altogether Nasty.

When PAL colour first came along, that used vertical axis switching in
the colour signal, as well as frame interlacing, so it turned out that
there was a rotating sequence of 8 distinctive frame types, and edits
had to be made such as to preserve that sequence. that can only be
done electronically between two sources which can be synced up
together and IGWS for that matter are also in "colour sync" as well
as.

The signals had to be timed up to be accurate within the odd
microsecond or less, otherwise their would be a bigger and better, and
now *coloured* disturbance. It needed digital electronics to do that.
It can't be done by looking through a microscope, or by varying the
volts on an electric motor.

Perversely the French SECAM system was more rugged in this respect and
editing colour videotapes was simpler for them, they could just go
instantaeneously from play to record if they were B&W synchronous.

However, since their colour information was carried on an FM
subcarrier signals from 2 sources couldn't be simply added together,
(Effect smilar to 2 radio stations on top of one another) so their
vision mixers were more complicated and less satisfactory than ours,
having to decode the signal to RGB and re-encode at all positions in
between 0% and 100% on the fader.

That, at least, is some consolation.

DG

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, www.waspies.net wrote:

The disused station area where the trogoldytes lived was absolutely
fascinating, does anyone know where it was?

Barking

Nah - surely it's RMT head office?

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

Well, my two previous responses on this have evidently disappeared into
oblivion, so here goes again...

The one where the actor died during a live broadcast was an Armchair
Theatre production called "Underground" (broadcast November 28, 1958)
about nuclear war survivors. The actors were supposedly digging their
way out, and were "rotated out" to have more make-up progressively
applied so that they appeared dirtier as time went on. One of the
actors, Gareth Jones, complained of feeling unwell while off-set and
collapsed from a fatal heart attack. The script was hurriedly re-written
to cover his absence. Of note is the high quality of the other cast
members including Peter Bowles, Andrew Cruickshank and Warren Mitchell.

"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In message , BH Williams
writes
In Tyne Tees we used to edit a football match review in a hurry on 2"
tape. I can't remember the name of the programme, maybe "the Big Match".

Probably "Shoot!", TTTV's regional football programme from the early
sixties until 1982.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk
It was whatever succeeded that, as Lynne started at TTTV in 1982- to keep
some semblance of railway interest, I should add that she's now in the
railway business..
Brian

In message
"Martin Underwood" a@b wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote in message
:

In message
"Ronnie Clark" wrote:

It was quite some time before more advanced editing techniques made
it possible to record a whole serial in one go, however I vaguely
recall that it started in the middle of the third series.

Not quite sure what you mean by this, presumably you are referring to
the advent of electronic editing.

What was it that precluded electronic editing by dubbing from one tape to
another, as they did until a few years ago? Was it simply that copying from
one tape to another in the early days brought the quality below acceptible
broadcast standards?



The 10 second run-up of a tape machine (or telecine) to achieve sync was a
problem until electronics were devised to enable the machines to go from play
to record on the fly at a predetermined point. Eventually Ampex devised a
quad machine that would do instant starts, first used on the Andre Previn
concerts.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Stephen Wilson wrote:

I think the confusion is down to way it's been described. Dr Who never went
out live, but due to the way it was recorded it was very much like a live
show. Scenes were recorded in order, there was little opportunity for
retakes, etc. So although it was all committed to tape before transmission,
the process for the actors, stage hands, etc. probably didn't differ much
from a show that did go out live.

Plus, I guess at the time that VT equipment and consumables were pretty
expensive, so wastage of tape had to be kept to a minimum for cost
reasons.

David Belcher

In message , Graeme Wall
writes
The 10 second run-up of a tape machine (or telecine) to achieve sync was a
problem until electronics were devised to enable the machines to go from play
to record on the fly at a predetermined point. Eventually Ampex devised a
quad machine that would do instant starts, first used on the Andre Previn
concerts.

I was at a loose end in South Kensington for a couple of hours last week
and went along to the Science Museum to pay my respects to "Rocket".
While mooching around I actually stumbled on one of these early (very
early as it turned out) Ampex Machines. Apparently
Associated-Rediffusion imported the first one from the US to the UK.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Ian Jelf wrote:

I was at a loose end in South Kensington for a couple of hours last
week and went along to the Science Museum to pay my respects to
"Rocket". While mooching around I actually stumbled on one of these
early (very early as it turned out) Ampex Machines.

If anyone else is old enough to grok the word-play - I once
saw a cartoon of the VERA equipment at the BBC, with the caption
"Someone isn't using Ampex".

"Stephen Wilson" wrote in message
...
I think the confusion is down to way it's been described. Dr Who never
went out live, but due to the way it was recorded it was very much like a
live show. Scenes were recorded in order, there was little opportunity for
retakes, etc. So although it was all committed to tape before
transmission, the process for the actors, stage hands, etc. probably
didn't differ much from a show that did go out live.

That's called (at least in some countries) "live to tape", and is still
common in news and current affairs.


Daniel
--
Daniel Bowen, Melbourne, Australia
danielbowen at gmail dot com
http://www.danielbowen.com/