Chris Tolley wrote:
burkey wrote:

The Croxley Rail Link (CRL) and improvements at Watford Junction
Station have been identified by the East of England Regional Assembly
as priorities

Whilst I'm sure that the people of Watford (other than the affected
nimbys) will rejoice, one can't help wondering if this august body has
all its faculties in working order. There are umpteen other East of
England PT projects that should be greater priorities, like increasing
capacity on the ECML, and upgrading cross-country links, especially for
freight flows from the ports.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632848.html

Its funny, last year I was posted a message enquiring what the people
of Watford and Herts would get for approx £90m of expenditure and now
it seems that it is only £66m. I still can't see what is going to cost
£66m but it might be helpful if they could get their estimates a bit
more accurate. I bet if the final estimate is £90m the the final cost
will be £150m.

Kevin

I question the accuracy of that £90m claim Kevin. The TfL website -
the only publicly available online resource on the scheme - gives the
figure at 2004 prices as £65 million. I can't see a near-50% hike in
less than two years, even allowing for construction inflation the way
it is.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/company/p...ley-rail-link/

AIUI the Croxley Rail Link is central to the multi-agency regeneration
of a large area of west Watford and the development of the Watford
Health Campus as well as being expected to abstract a decent number of
vehicles off the A412 and A404 every morning and evening. You have to
factor all of these benefits into your appraisal.

As the Croxley Rail Link is not just about the good people of Watford
and Hertfordshire (despite what you think) TfL have committed to pay
about £19 million in contribution to reflect the wider social and
economic benefits of this scheme to Londoners. The quicker this scheme
is sanctioned the better. It is an excellent chance for radically
improving rail connectivity for the whole of north west London at an
affordable enough price.

It would only enhance the business case were Chiltern to take interest
in this scheme - direct Aylesbury North - Watford Junction services
(via Watford North Curve) anyone?

THC

THC wrote:
As the Croxley Rail Link is not just about the good people of Watford
and Hertfordshire (despite what you think) TfL have committed to pay
about £19 million in contribution to reflect the wider social and
economic benefits of this scheme to Londoners. The quicker this scheme
is sanctioned the better. It is an excellent chance for radically
improving rail connectivity for the whole of north west London at an
affordable enough price.

The biggest advantage is the creation of a second link between the
metropolitan centres of Harrow and Watford via the Metropolitan Line -
the existing link via the DC lines, while undoubtedly adequate, doesn't
have the same capacity that the four-track Met Main does.


It would only enhance the business case were Chiltern to take interest
in this scheme - direct Aylesbury North - Watford Junction services
(via Watford North Curve) anyone?

Everybody keeps bringing this up, and yet so far no one knows if
Chiltern really is interested in this or not. Considering that
northward links from Aylesbury to Bletchley, Milton Keynes and Bedford
seem unlikely to ever take place, strengthening the town's existing
links to the south could be very beneficial.

Besides, Aylesbury North to Watford Junction seems like a no-brainer of
a service to run anyway - it creates capacity on the outer stretches of
the Met without having to go into the city and it provides a fast link
from south Bucks to the WCML without requiring passengers to drive to
MKC or go all the way into Euston.

On 23 Feb 2006 06:55:18 -0800, "TheOneKEA"
wrote:

The biggest advantage is the creation of a second link between the
metropolitan centres of Harrow and Watford via the Metropolitan Line -
the existing link via the DC lines, while undoubtedly adequate, [...]

I wouldn't say it's all that adequate - the Met station at Harrow is
right in the town centre, whereas the nearest DC line stations (at
Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone) are a good 15-20 mins walk away.

northward links from Aylesbury to Bletchley, Milton Keynes and
Bedford
seem unlikely to ever take place
Really? I'd have thought there was a decent chance - there is a huge
amount of new housing going into this area, and thus funding for
transport projects. People have wondered if Chiltern are interested in
operating certain services - but they can be required to, as part of
the franchise renewal process.

Chiltern's franchise was renewed for a 20-year term in February 2002
when the late great Sir Alastair Morton was in charge at the SRA - they
were the only company to secure one of that length and so are sitting
pretty for some time to come. There may have been a five-year break
clause but I recall reading that this is conditional only on poor
performance, therefore unlikely to be invoked.

I also remember that the heads of agreement for this particular
refranchise contained proposals for an M1/M6 parkway and a reopened
portion of the Great Central to serve it. And a new/relaid line from
Princes Risborough to Oxford. That kind of vision in a franchise bid
seems so far away now.

THC

THC wrote:
Chiltern's franchise was renewed for a 20-year term in February 2002
when the late great Sir Alastair Morton was in charge at the SRA - they
were the only company to secure one of that length and so are sitting
pretty for some time to come. There may have been a five-year break
clause but I recall reading that this is conditional only on poor
performance, therefore unlikely to be invoked.

Indeed. Chiltern's longevity in the reliability department is matched,
AFAIK, only by c2c.


I also remember that the heads of agreement for this particular
refranchise contained proposals for an M1/M6 parkway and a reopened
portion of the Great Central to serve it. And a new/relaid line from
Princes Risborough to Oxford. That kind of vision in a franchise bid
seems so far away now.

The former is still a possibility, unless the GCML is transformed into
the NSHSL. The latter will never happen, as it would require too many
disruptive alterations to the M40 at Junction 8.

wrote:
northward links from Aylesbury to Bletchley, Milton Keynes and
Bedford
seem unlikely to ever take place
Really? I'd have thought there was a decent chance - there is a huge
amount of new housing going into this area, and thus funding for
transport projects. People have wondered if Chiltern are interested in
operating certain services - but they can be required to, as part of
the franchise renewal process.

There have been at least two mega-threads on the topic, mostly
revolving around the restoration of passenger services on the Met&GC
Joint to Quainton Road, the Great Central main line to Calvert and the
LNWR cross-country line from Claydon LN&E Junction to Bletchley,
providing a through route from Aylesbury to Bletchley via Quainton.
Those Who Know have repeatedly stated that despite rammed roads, poor
bus links and increased housing, the restoration of the rail link Will
Not Happen until someone can get enough money together to convince the
DfT that the restoration of the route is viable.

"TheOneKEA" wrote:

Those Who Know have repeatedly stated that despite rammed roads, poor
bus links and increased housing, the restoration of the rail link Will
Not Happen until someone can get enough money together to convince the
DfT that the restoration of the route is viable.

The truth is that a comprehensive survey was commissioned by a rail
industry consortium to establish whether the Oxford-Cambridge route
would be viable. The report showed it wouldn't be, not by a long way.
It wasn't even a marginal case. The consortium that commissioned and
supported the study was disbanded soon after the report was completed.

That should have drawn a line, ending any further speculation about
Oxford-Cambridge. But no. It keeps cropping up on here, time and
time (and time) again. And again.

Oxford-Cambridge is dead and buried. Just forget it.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:04:03 +0000, asdf
wrote:

On 23 Feb 2006 06:55:18 -0800, "TheOneKEA"
wrote:

The biggest advantage is the creation of a second link between the
metropolitan centres of Harrow and Watford via the Metropolitan Line -
the existing link via the DC lines, while undoubtedly adequate, [...]

I wouldn't say it's all that adequate - the Met station at Harrow is
right in the town centre,
It isn't, it's in the main shopping area in Greenhill. The town centre
is on top of the hill.

whereas the nearest DC line stations (at
Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone) are a good 15-20 mins walk away.

Possibly longer once you've waited to get past various road junctions.
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