On 29 Jul 2003 16:25:53 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

The fact that you have prepaid your ticket does not give you some moral
precedence over those of us who choose, for whatever reason, to buy an
individual ticket. Moreover, queue-jumping is simply wrong, in ANY
circumstances.

The typical British bus queue is one of the things that slows down bus
boarding in this country. In Europe, where "mob sport" prevails,
loading times are much quicker.

For this reason, I feel those with passes should be able to "jump the
queue", preferably without the pass needing to be shown.

I say this as someone who uses buses infrequently, and therefore
normally paying individual fares as yourself (in Milton Keynes; in
London I tend to have a Travelcard). While I may lose the chance of a
good seat, my journey will be quicker - a clear benefit for all.

Neil

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:58:08 GMT Neil Williams wrote:
} On 29 Jul 2003 16:25:53 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:
}
} The fact that you have prepaid your ticket does not give you some moral
} precedence over those of us who choose, for whatever reason, to buy an
} individual ticket. Moreover, queue-jumping is simply wrong, in ANY
} circumstances.
}
} The typical British bus queue is one of the things that slows down bus
} boarding in this country. In Europe, where "mob sport" prevails,
} loading times are much quicker.

Indeed. This year I've used quite a few buses in Italy where almost all
tickets are pre-paid. 3 door busses, validation machines onboard.
Stopping times rarely more than 30 seconds even when busy.

In Siena a ticket is eur 0.80 ( ukp 0.56 ) and valid for 60 minutes
after the time stamped by the validator which means you get anywhere in
the city or outlying villiages for that price. Naples is eur 1 ( ukp
0.70 ) but the ciry is much larger and the corresponding permitted time
90 minutes.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Mait001 wrote:

This is something about Oystercards which is annoying me already. Up to
now, it was possible to walk on the right past the person who is paying
the driver in cash, whilst waving your Travelcard, and then just walk
down the bus.

Now, I have to queue up on the left side of the door, so that I can
reach the Oystercard reader.

Good - I HATE it when people behind me queue jump just because I am paying for
a ticket and someone behind thinks they have the right to get past me just
because they have a pass. I normally try to stand in such a way as to prevent
queue-jumping anyway.


Oh don't be so daft. It's not queue-jumping - it's merely trying to get
everyone on the bus as quickly as possible.

I mean, at a tube station, do you queue at the ticket machine even when
you already have a travel card, or do you go straight through the gates
and "queue jump" all the people who were in the station before you.

Many apologies if ever I have stolen the seat you were about to take!
:-)

I always wait too.
Kids crowd in while someone is paying cash and show out of date travel
cards and are upstairs before the driver has even finished issuing the
ticket.
--
CJG

Good point about the driver not properly seeing passes that are "shown" whilst
he is selling a ticket to someone else.

Nice to see at least one other civilised contributor to this forum!

Marc.

"Mait001" wrote in message
...
In Europe, where "mob sport" prevails,

Not just Europe!

But what you say is correct: queueing is one of those civilising feratures
of
British life we ought not to surrender lightly.

I take it you've never been south of the river then?

"Mait001" wrote in message
...
I hadn't realised just what a state of degenerate "free for all" selfish
animals the human race had become.

Haven't lived in London for long?

I take it you've never been south of the river then?



Funnily enough, I have just been QUEUEING at Clapham Junction!

Marc.

On 30 Jul 2003 15:43:12 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

But what you say is correct: queueing is one of those civilising feratures of
British life we ought not to surrender lightly.

Where it provides a service improvement, yes. I personally dislike
the use of multiple queues in banks, post offices etc - and very much
approve of the new electronic systems which are much fairer. I also
dislike McD's intentional use of multiple queues as an
anti-British-culture thing.

However, queueing for buses does not provide a service improvement.
Are you honestly saying you'd foresake an improvement in journey times
(a significant one, based on my European and London bendybus
experience) for a bus queue?

I for one wouldn't.

Neil

Are you honestly saying you'd foresake an improvement in journey times
(a significant one, based on my European and London bendybus
experience) for a bus queue?

I for one wouldn't.

Neil


To me, a journey is more than a mere utilitarian journey from A to B.

The manner of getting there matters to me. For example, I would favour a
journey in a breezy Routemaster than a stuffy unopening-window heatbox of a bus
any day, and if I saw a Routemaster coming in the distance, I would wait for it
rather than get the first bus, for example, in Oxford Street.

Also, if a very full bus comes, where a seat is unlikely, I invariably wait for
the next one.

And, yes, I do want a seat, preferably near a window, and preferably upstairs,
and preferably not on the sunny side of the bus. None of these factors are
likely to be enhanced by someone pushing past me as I patiently buy my ticket,
in the same way that I NEVER push past someone else queuing for theirs, push
past someone in a shop queue, barge past someone waiting at a pelican crossing
or, come to that, if driving, push my car into a small space that might exist
between the car in front of me and the car beyond it.

These things can be summed up in one word: manners.

Marc.

Mait001 wrote:
To me, a journey is more than a mere utilitarian journey from A to B.

The manner of getting there matters to me. For example, I would
favour a journey in a breezy Routemaster than a stuffy
unopening-window heatbox of a bus any day, and if I saw a Routemaster
coming in the distance, I would wait for it rather than get the first
bus, for example, in Oxford Street.

Also, if a very full bus comes, where a seat is unlikely, I
invariably wait for the next one.

And, yes, I do want a seat, preferably near a window, and preferably
upstairs, and preferably not on the sunny side of the bus.

Ideally yes, but on a busy service you can surely not expect such luxury?

None of these factors are likely to be enhanced by someone pushing past
me as I patiently buy my ticket ...

You are assuming that they are *pushing* past, but they may be just using
the available entrance space to board the bus, thus minimising dwell time at
the stop and speeding up your journey and everyone else's. If so, it's not
a question of manners but of maximising the use of a limited resource, i.e.
the boarding capacity of the bus.

If you were driving a car towards red traffic lights, and there were two
available lanes, are you saying you would choose the same lane as the car in
front of you for the sake of good manners, or do the sensible thing and
choose the lane with fewest vehicles in it (thus maximising the flow through
the lights when they change as well as your own progress)?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)