chris wrote in message . ..
Noticed today a flyer saying that you will have to have a valid ticket
for travel on buses in the central zone before getting on the bus
Is this zone 1 only?
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WC1N 3XX,
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See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

On 28 Jul 2003 09:04:25 -0700, (Gooner) wrote:

See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

It's a pity tickets will still need to be shown rather than a
much-needed increase in the penalty fare (I think 30 quid wouldn't be
unreasonable - at the very least) and spot inspections as on the
bendies. Surely, handing over a quid doesn't take that much longer
than showing a ticket and allowing the driver to read it - unless
you're fumbling for change, of course?

The real benefit of off-bus ticketing on busy routes is that it is not
necessary to board one-by-one - 4 abreast boarding (2 per door) is
possible - but not if you need to show your ticket.

It's also confusing that there are now 4 types of fare collection -
bendies, where it's buy before you board and no need to show tickets,
Routemasters, where you buy on board, normal buses where you buy
before you board but need to show your ticket on boarding, and
"traditional" pay-on-entry. It's also confusing that the same colour
(yellow) is to be used to represent both of the before-you-board
types.

Passenger-friendly? Not unless it can be simplified properly.

Neil

Neil Williams writes
It's a pity tickets will still need to be shown rather than a
much-needed increase in the penalty fare (I think 30 quid wouldn't be
unreasonable - at the very least) and spot inspections as on the
bendies.

'PassRight' was trialled a few years ago on the W7 (also later used to
trial cash-free boarding) and a few other routes in the area (41 & W3
spring to mind).

If you recall the style of bus widely used before LFBs were widespread,
there was a little metal barrier on the right hand side of the entrance
door, to make you walk next to the driver. During the PassRight trial
these were removed - so if you had a pass of any kind you could board
the bus on the right hand side and not need to show your pass.

I think the trial lasted for about 9 months. Nothing more has been
heard of it, so I an only assume that it wasn't deemed to be a success.

Surely, handing over a quid doesn't take that much longer than showing
a ticket and allowing the driver to read it - unless you're fumbling
for change, of course?

Well TfL's research doesn't think so. They're spending a lot of money
to install the ticket machines - and they reckon it cuts boarding times
by 10%.

It's also confusing that there are now 4 types of fare collection -
bendies, where it's buy before you board and no need to show tickets,
Routemasters, where you buy on board, normal buses where you buy before
you board but need to show your ticket on boarding, and "traditional"
pay-on-entry. It's also confusing that the same colour (yellow) is to
be used to represent both of the before-you-board types.

The yellow is merely to highlight that you need to have a ticket before
boarding. I don't find that confusing at all.

--
Dave

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:57:07 +0100, Dave
wrote:

I think the trial lasted for about 9 months. Nothing more has been
heard of it, so I an only assume that it wasn't deemed to be a success.

It'll increase fare-dodging - but I still think an increased penalty
fare (bringing it in line with parking fines is not unreasonable in my
book) and spot inspections would help this.

I can't see that it could be anything other than a success from a
boarding-speed perspective on busy routes, though - why is it that on
most bus services in German cities, it is not necessary to show a
ticket when boarding?

The HVV (Hamburg), being hit by high fare-dodging figures recently,
have stated that they will not introduce compulsory showing of tickets
except in the evening and on Sundays (as they always did) because it
would affect operational speed too much - and if you're familiar with
bus operations in Germany (or indeed the TfL bendies) it makes one
hell of a difference.

Well TfL's research doesn't think so. They're spending a lot of money
to install the ticket machines - and they reckon it cuts boarding times
by 10%.

I would be interested to know what their research is based on, other
than the bendies and the trial mentioned above. No similar system
exists in this country for them to base a study on - and I'm not aware
of a trial somewhere where such a thing could make a massive
difference - Oxford Street, for example.

The yellow is merely to highlight that you need to have a ticket before
boarding. I don't find that confusing at all.

Do I need to show it or not? Hmm, I don't know - best show it anyway.
Hey-presto - bendy boarding times slowed. Or maybe I board at the
rear of a decker and go upstairs - the bus is then delayed a few
minutes while the driver shouts me back to show my ticket.

Conductors on normal buses failed because it was confusing - everyone
knows what a Routemaster looks like (admittedly the same can, I
suppose, be said of a bendy). This has the potential to do the same -
causing more delay, not less.

Neil

Dave wrote:

If you recall the style of bus widely used before LFBs were widespread,
there was a little metal barrier on the right hand side of the entrance
door, to make you walk next to the driver. During the PassRight trial
these were removed - so if you had a pass of any kind you could board
the bus on the right hand side and not need to show your pass.

This is something about Oystercards which is annoying me already. Up to
now, it was possible to walk on the right past the person who is paying
the driver in cash, whilst waving your Travelcard, and then just walk
down the bus.

Now, I have to queue up on the left side of the door, so that I can
reach the Oystercard reader.

Certainly, for me, at busy stops, it has made boarding buses *slower*
than before.

Dave

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jul 2003 09:04:25 -0700, (Gooner) wrote:

See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

It's a pity tickets will still need to be shown rather than a
much-needed increase in the penalty fare (I think 30 quid wouldn't be
unreasonable - at the very least) and spot inspections as on the
bendies. Surely, handing over a quid doesn't take that much longer
than showing a ticket and allowing the driver to read it - unless
you're fumbling for change, of course?

The real benefit of off-bus ticketing on busy routes is that it is not
necessary to board one-by-one - 4 abreast boarding (2 per door) is
possible - but not if you need to show your ticket.

It's also confusing that there are now 4 types of fare collection -
bendies, where it's buy before you board and no need to show tickets,
Routemasters, where you buy on board, normal buses where you buy
before you board but need to show your ticket on boarding, and
"traditional" pay-on-entry. It's also confusing that the same colour
(yellow) is to be used to represent both of the before-you-board
types.

Passenger-friendly? Not unless it can be simplified properly.

Also, "saver" bus tickets need to be presented to the driver on bendy buses,
I have been told.

This is something about Oystercards which is annoying me already. Up to
now, it was possible to walk on the right past the person who is paying
the driver in cash, whilst waving your Travelcard, and then just walk
down the bus.

Now, I have to queue up on the left side of the door, so that I can
reach the Oystercard reader.

Good - I HATE it when people behind me queue jump just because I am paying for
a ticket and someone behind thinks they have the right to get past me just
because they have a pass. I normally try to stand in such a way as to prevent
queue-jumping anyway.

Marc.

On 29 Jul 2003 10:53:29 GMT Mait001 wrote:
} This is something about Oystercards which is annoying me already. Up to
} now, it was possible to walk on the right past the person who is paying
} the driver in cash, whilst waving your Travelcard, and then just walk
} down the bus.
}
} Now, I have to queue up on the left side of the door, so that I can
} reach the Oystercard reader.
}
} Good - I HATE it when people behind me queue jump just because I am paying for
} a ticket and someone behind thinks they have the right to get past me just
} because they have a pass. I normally try to stand in such a way as to prevent
} queue-jumping anyway.

But those of us with a pass (or now Oyster) have already paid. Having
pre-loaded tfl and other operators' coffers we clearly deserve seats or
at least comfortable standing positions far more than you unplanning
types delaying the bus with your ticket buying.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

But those of us with a pass (or now Oyster) have already paid. Having
pre-loaded tfl and other operators' coffers we clearly deserve seats or
at least comfortable standing positions far more than you unplanning
types delaying the bus with your ticket buying.

Matthew

Matthew,

The fact that you have prepaid your ticket does not give you some moral
precedence over those of us who choose, for whatever reason, to buy an
individual ticket. Moreover, queue-jumping is simply wrong, in ANY
circumstances.

And, before you ask, no I am not one of those that proffers a £20 note for 70
pence ticket - I ALWAYS have the correct change available.

Marc.

In message , Mait001
writes
Good - I HATE it when people behind me queue jump just because I am
paying for a ticket and someone behind thinks they have the right to
get past me just because they have a pass. I normally try to stand in
such a way as to prevent queue-jumping anyway.

I always wait too.
Kids crowd in while someone is paying cash and show out of date travel
cards and are upstairs before the driver has even finished issuing the
ticket.
--
CJG