Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(John Rowland) wrote:

umpston wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in
London, showing hours of operation?

There is a virtually unreadable map of the red-route network at:
www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/red-route-map.shtml

Thanks, that's great!

Are you some kind of masochist? It's unreadable!

It is perfectly clear to me. Obviously you can't read any of the text, but I
am not without other sources for that, and neither are you. The only thing I
can't understand is why the bus-only road through the middle of the Marble
Arch one-way system is shown as a red route!

Peter Heather wrote:

All of the roads in TfL Road Network are now Red
Routes. There were some strategic roads added to the TDfL's Red Route
Network when TfL was formed in 2000, but these were fairly quickly
converted to Red Routes.

This seems appalling to me. When you stop on a red route, you aren't
prosecuted for reasons to do with safety, capacity or speed, but merely
because TfL owns that particular road, and TfL wants to prosecute anyone who
stops on any of the roads that it owns. That sounds like "frivolous
prosecution" to me. I suspect that if the kids at 53 Broadway kick the ball
into TfL's garden, TfL would puncture it before throwing it back.

John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in London,
showing hours of operation?

Next question... suppose road works close a 10 yard section of a red route,
and the surrounding half-mile section between the nearest major traffic
lights becomes "access only", would the red route restrictions still apply
on the semi-deserted section?

John Rowland wrote:
Peter Heather wrote:

All of the roads in TfL Road Network are now Red
Routes. There were some strategic roads added to the TDfL's Red
Route Network when TfL was formed in 2000, but these were fairly
quickly converted to Red Routes.

This seems appalling to me. When you stop on a red route, you aren't
prosecuted for reasons to do with safety, capacity or speed, but
merely because TfL owns that particular road, and TfL wants to
prosecute anyone who stops on any of the roads that it owns.

If you stop on a red route, you may or may not be breaking the law. As
I pointed out on 5/8/06, "along a Red Route, you are likely to have
various different times and restrictions applying to particular lengths
of kerb, including loading and parking bays, just as for other roads."
Since the roads that were added to the original red routes are
"strategic roads", it seems reasonable to make sure they are not
obstructed by stopped vehicles.

Do I detect some personal interest here? Have you by any chance been
caught stopping illegally on a red route?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

John Rowland wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(John Rowland) wrote:

umpston wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in
London, showing hours of operation?

There is a virtually unreadable map of the red-route network at:
www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/red-route-map.shtml

Thanks, that's great!

Are you some kind of masochist? It's unreadable!

It is perfectly clear to me. Obviously you can't read any of the
text, but I am not without other sources for that, and neither are
you. The only thing I can't understand is why the bus-only road
through the middle of the Marble Arch one-way system is shown as a
red route!

If it wasn't a red route, you'd effectively have a roundabout with part
controlled by TfL and part by City of Westminster.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

John Rowland wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in London,
showing hours of operation?

Next question... suppose road works close a 10 yard section of a red route,
and the surrounding half-mile section between the nearest major traffic
lights becomes "access only", would the red route restrictions still apply
on the semi-deserted section?

Yes, unless TfL have agreed otherwise.

umpston wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in
London, showing hours of operation?

Next question... suppose road works close a 10 yard section of a
red route, and the surrounding half-mile section between the
nearest major traffic lights becomes "access only", would the red
route restrictions still apply on the semi-deserted section?

Yes, unless TfL have agreed otherwise.

If it's a planned closure, it would be authorised by a Traffic Order,
which might also alter the stopping/waiting restrictions.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:

Do I detect some personal interest here? Have you by any
chance been caught stopping illegally on a red route?

No. Not yet!

John Rowland wrote:

Peter Heather wrote:

All of the roads in TfL Road Network are now Red
Routes. There were some strategic roads added to the TDfL's Red Route
Network when TfL was formed in 2000, but these were fairly quickly
converted to Red Routes.

This seems appalling to me. When you stop on a red route, you aren't
prosecuted for reasons to do with safety, capacity or speed, but merely
because TfL owns that particular road, and TfL wants to prosecute anyone who
stops on any of the roads that it owns. That sounds like "frivolous
prosecution" to me. I suspect that if the kids at 53 Broadway kick the ball
into TfL's garden, TfL would puncture it before throwing it back.


I think you might be slightly missing the point - which is that all the
roads in the TfL Road Network (TLRN) are classified as strategic routes
- and they are only part of the TLRN *because* they are strategic
routes - and strategic routes work much better when they're free
flowing and not jammed up with parked cars. If a road is not a
strategic route then it won't be part of the TLRN and hence won't be a
Red Route.

I can't off the top of my head think of any Red Routes that I think are
inappropriately classified as such - but then I'm not a petrolhead who
contradictorily complains both about congestion and also about a lack
of freedom to park anywhere I want (and before I get flamed I'm not
accusing anyone else on here of holding that mindset either!).

Richard J. wrote:
umpston wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Is it possible to acquire a list or map of all Red Routes in
London, showing hours of operation?

Next question... suppose road works close a 10 yard section of a
red route, and the surrounding half-mile section between the
nearest major traffic lights becomes "access only", would the red
route restrictions still apply on the semi-deserted section?

Yes, unless TfL have agreed otherwise.

If it's a planned closure, it would be authorised by a Traffic Order,
which might also alter the stopping/waiting restrictions.
--

such a temporary Traffic Order (or Temporary Traffic Notice) would
probably include a phrase like "at such times as the appropriate
regulatory signs are displayed or covered". Therefore if the existing
red-route signs remain visible, and no alternative signs displayed, it
is best to assume the red-route restrictions remain enforceable.
Sometimes there may be a general 'enforcement suspension' or a
dispensation (for specific vehicles) along a length of road to allow
for road-works or a special event. Residents or businesses might be
informed of this but unless signs are displayed the only way to find
out is to ask the Traffic Authority (which is TfL for Red-Routes, and
the Boroughs for most other roads in London).