Paul Corfield wrote:
On 15 Aug 2006 16:22:21 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:

I am sure that there hasn't been a W based on Woodford, at least for
many decades.

Err so what do the W13 and W14 do then other than wandering around
Woodford? They go nowhere near Walthamstow although I accept they were
implemented as part of the Walthamstow network tendering exercise that
gave us W11 - W16.


I am undone.

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Stuart) wrote:

Orienteer wrote:
There used to be, but no longer!

Central bus routes were 1 - 199, single deck routes 200-299,
country buses north of the Thames 300-399, south 400-499,
trolleybuses 500-699, Greenline routes 700 - 799.

AIUI there is a system whereby when routes are split up they get
prefixed with a 3 and the route spawns a school bus that gets a 6
at the front. For example the 71, 371, 671 and the 29, 329, 629

3xx or 4xx.



I thought that beginning 3xx or 4xx implied that the route wasn't
direct. It certainly seems to work that way in practice.

Like the 484, which seems to visit every single house in south London
while going nowhere much. And a 3 something which I got on at Queen
Elizabeth Hospital to go a very short distance to Woolwich centre. I
think it went via Margate.

On 16 Aug 2006 13:29:57 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:


Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Stuart) wrote:

Orienteer wrote:
There used to be, but no longer!

Central bus routes were 1 - 199, single deck routes 200-299,
country buses north of the Thames 300-399, south 400-499,
trolleybuses 500-699, Greenline routes 700 - 799.

AIUI there is a system whereby when routes are split up they get
prefixed with a 3 and the route spawns a school bus that gets a 6
at the front. For example the 71, 371, 671 and the 29, 329, 629

3xx or 4xx.



I thought that beginning 3xx or 4xx implied that the route wasn't
direct. It certainly seems to work that way in practice.

I rather like this theory.

I think that these prefixes are used simply because they are the parts
of the overall numbering scheme which were "vacant" after London Country
Buses were sold off. IIRC 3xx was LCBS north of the Thames, 4xx south of
the Thames and 7xx was pretty much the Green Line series of numbers -
that's a very rough and ready view before I get pounced on my the bus
historians reading this!

As many of the old and long trunk services have been chopped up into
bits, to ensure that the suburban parts of these routes were not devoid
of buses due to congestion in the centre, these numbers have had to be
used. Add in the hugely increased density of the network today compared
to the sixties due to lots of local routes then you can see why a much
larger numbering series is needed.

Like the 484, which seems to visit every single house in south London
while going nowhere much. And a 3 something which I got on at Queen
Elizabeth Hospital to go a very short distance to Woolwich centre. I
think it went via Margate.

The 386 by any mischance? Still if you had to reach a house in South
London or perhaps drop in on Margate on the way to Greenwich I guess you
might see the 386 and 484 as being valuable little routes. I can
personally think of one or two little routes I'd like near my front door
but I suspect I shall never get them.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

As many of the old and long trunk services have been chopped up into
bits, to ensure that the suburban parts of these routes were not
devoid of buses due to congestion in the centre, these numbers have
had to be used. Add in the hugely increased density of the network
today compared to the sixties due to lots of local routes then you can
see why a much larger numbering series is needed.

That's not the reason for the 3xx and 4xx series. It's because they have
scrapped suffix letters. You could have had 44A and 44B suffixes for
short runs like the 44 and 344 but they didn't want that.

But someone on high decreed that suffix letters were not 21st century so
they have all gone, with the last being the 77A (now roughly the 87).

The 11 in Birmingham goes up to 11E doesn't it? So the Outer Circle can
be divided into sectors?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
Potters Bar falls outside the TfL area (although there is some
cross over in the TfL funded routes also operate within Potters
Bar), so it's up to Hertfordshire County Council what the routes
are called.

Not when the PB1 first started, surely?

You live and learn. Apparently the PB1 was started in 1977 by
Dial-a-Ride; although a different website says PB1 was based on the 284
bus route at that time. Anyone know any more? I wasn't born and only
lived in Potters Bar 1987 to 2000

Just looked on busmap.org and the 284 appears in the 1970 map (doing a
loop around Mutton Lane, Darkes Lane and the High Street) but not the
1958 map.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
But someone on high decreed that suffix letters were not 21st century so
they have all gone, with the last being the 77A (now roughly the 87).

The 11 in Birmingham goes up to 11E doesn't it? So the Outer Circle can
be divided into sectors?

If you want suffix letters, go to Chennai (Madras) in India. Many
numbers seem to have all possible suffix letters from A to Z. And the
18A has Ashok Leyland Titan rear platform double-deckers. It's pretty
confusing for visitors, though.

Colin McKenzie

--
On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking
a mile than cycling it.
So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:


The 11 in Birmingham goes up to 11E doesn't it? So the Outer Circle can
be divided into sectors?

From my Brum days (many years sgo now, so the info may be out of date),
the Birmingham Outer Circle route 11 is split into 11A and 11C, for
anti clockwise and clockwise operations respectively. The inner circle
route 8 is similarly split. 'E' is a generic suffix across the whole
system to denote a bus that is terminating before the end of the route.

Quite a sensible system really. The one thing that I couldn't master
(until I became familiar with the geography of the city) was that
radial routes never changed their destination blinds, and you just had
to know if they were running to or from the city!

Peter

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:31:34 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

MIG wrote:
Iain wrote:
"Orienteer" wrote in
k:

There used to be, but no longer!

Central bus routes were 1 - 199, single deck routes 200-299, country
buses north of the Thames 300-399, south 400-499, trolleybuses
500-699, Greenline routes 700 - 799.

What about the W-prefixed buses? I've variously heard that the W
stands for Walthamstow, Woodford, and even West (which seems
unlikely seeing as they're mostly based around northeast London).

Is there any official reason why (a) the W prefix was brought in, and
(b) why they still use it?

Iain


I am sure that there hasn't been a W based on Woodford, at least for
many decades. I think there were two versions of W relatively
recently. Mainly it was routes around, and based at, Wood Green.

The W8 and W9 went nowhere near Wood Green, but they did serve Winchmore
Hill.

But they were close to, and similar to (i.e. PAYB standee vehicles)
the W1-6 which were in the Wood Green area.

From memory the W1-6 were the first in the W series, and were all in
the Wood Green area. (The W21 came not long after in a separate stage
on the bus restructuring plan, so we'll ignore that). W7 came slightly
later as a direct replacement for the 212. Although it didn't go that
near Wood Green it could be considered to form part of a network with
the other W routes, as two of them also served Finsbury Park station
and they also interested at the base of Muswell Hill.

W8 was not much later and a replacement for the 128. It was quite a
way outside the Wood Green area, it's closest approach to an existing
W route was, I think, Ridge Avenue which wasn't TOO far from Winchmore
Hill, where the W4 could be found. W9 came quite a bit later and was
different, as it was a minibus with hail-and-ride sections.

The other very early lettered schemes, all modelled on Red Arrow with
single-decker PAYG vehicles, turnstiles and very few seats, were at
Ealing (e1-3) and the M1 (Morden - Wimbledon or something like that).

On 16 Aug 2006 02:46:01 -0700, wrote:


Iain wrote:
What about the W-prefixed buses? I've variously heard that the W stands
for Walthamstow, Woodford, and even West (which seems unlikely seeing as
they're mostly based around northeast London).



Confusingly Potters Bar had PB1. Should it not have been merely P1 in
order to enable the usual clashes with other potential "P" locations?

The P1, P2 and P3 in Peckham came years before.

Paul G wrote in
:

Potters Bar falls outside the TfL area (although there is some cross
over in the TfL funded routes also operate within Potters Bar), so
it's up to Hertfordshire County Council what the routes are called.

The 313 goes from Chingford, through Enfield, up the Ridgeway and into
Potters Bar, and according to the timetable I've just downloaded from TfL
it's "Operated by Arriva London for London Buses".

Iain