I have just returned from another 6 days in London, my first trip
without being overcharged on my Oystercard since I got it in February,
however the trip wasn't entirely without oddities.

I did a journey West India Quay DLR to Canary Wharf, purely for the
amusement value, I touched in and out at both locations, and I even used
the ticket machine at Canary Wharf DLR which didn't show any unresolved
journeys, so the system certaintly registered it worked. The same
happenned for the person who was accompanying me.

Later on, we touched on the readers at Heron Quays DLR, where it flashed
up "Exit" on the screen - touching again, it still insisted we were
exiting, but we boarded anyway. When we got to Crossharbour we touched
again, it telling us to enter.
After doing what we did in Crossharbour, we returned to the DLR, but
didn't touch in, to get our card "working" again.

Looking on the ticket machine at Canary Wharf LU - it told us our
journeys we -
West India Quay DLR - Canary Wharf DLR
West India Quay DLR - Heron Quays DLR
Crossharbour DLR - Canary Wharf DLR

does anyone know what was going on - was the system trying to be clever,
thinking the time at Canary Wharf was so short we were trying to make an
interchange, and charge it as one journey respectively - or is it
another instance of equipment failure?

since technically we didn't make a journey on the system Heron Quays -
Crossharbour, could we have been liable for a fine/penalty fare?

Talking of Penalty Fares, I've noticed the DLR has employed some
Security Cowboys who seem to hang around at Canary Wharf on the
platforms in groups of 6 checking tickets and looking very jobsworthish
I certaintly didn't feel very safe and can't see how threatening looking
security guards talking to their mates on mobiles make people Travel Safe!
--
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:36:53 GMT, Joe Patrick
wrote:

I have just returned from another 6 days in London, my first trip
without being overcharged on my Oystercard since I got it in February,
however the trip wasn't entirely without oddities.

I did a journey West India Quay DLR to Canary Wharf, purely for the
amusement value, I touched in and out at both locations, and I even used
the ticket machine at Canary Wharf DLR which didn't show any unresolved
journeys, so the system certaintly registered it worked. The same
happenned for the person who was accompanying me.

Later on, we touched on the readers at Heron Quays DLR, where it flashed
up "Exit" on the screen - touching again, it still insisted we were
exiting, but we boarded anyway. When we got to Crossharbour we touched
again, it telling us to enter.
After doing what we did in Crossharbour, we returned to the DLR, but
didn't touch in, to get our card "working" again.

Looking on the ticket machine at Canary Wharf LU - it told us our
journeys we -
West India Quay DLR - Canary Wharf DLR
West India Quay DLR - Heron Quays DLR
Crossharbour DLR - Canary Wharf DLR

does anyone know what was going on - was the system trying to be clever,
thinking the time at Canary Wharf was so short we were trying to make an
interchange, and charge it as one journey respectively - or is it
another instance of equipment failure?

I don't know how the system is set up but it sounds to me as if it is
set up to recognise Canary Wharf DLR and Heron Quays DLR as legitimate
interchanges with Canary Wharf LU. In light of the journey and
validations you described it is entirely possible that the Heron Quays
equipment thought you'd be exiting - was "later on" actually within a
short time span from you leaving Canary Wharf?

since technically we didn't make a journey on the system Heron Quays -
Crossharbour, could we have been liable for a fine/penalty fare?

If your Canary Wharf / Heron Quays interchange was within a very space
of time then I'd expect a train captain or RCI to recognise what
happened and not levy a penalty fare. The proximity of stations that are
logical interchanges to the Tube makes it a difficult issue to get right
in all circumstances so discretion should be used in assessing what
someone has done with their Oyster card.

Talking of Penalty Fares, I've noticed the DLR has employed some
Security Cowboys who seem to hang around at Canary Wharf on the
platforms in groups of 6 checking tickets and looking very jobsworthish
I certaintly didn't feel very safe and can't see how threatening looking
security guards talking to their mates on mobiles make people Travel Safe!

I tend to get that reaction with all security guards who are employed to
loiter around railway stations.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

I find the use of Oyster on the DLR remarkably unintuitive (and I'm more
than used to many and varied transport systems all over the world).
The validators are very well hidden and signs reminding people to
validate _ I think - woefully inadequate especially compared to the
Tube, where such reminders are almost overwhelming!).

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I don't know how the system is set up but it sounds to me as if it is
set up to recognise Canary Wharf DLR and Heron Quays DLR as legitimate
interchanges with Canary Wharf LU. In light of the journey and
validations you described it is entirely possible that the Heron Quays
equipment thought you'd be exiting - was "later on" actually within a
short time span from you leaving Canary Wharf?
Now the first time I used Oyster PAYG on the DLR I was making that very
change and I suspect that, whatever happened in this case, that was what
happened to me. The penny didn't drop at the time but that must have
been it (especially since I exited at Cutty Sark and the system thought
I was entering).

If your Canary Wharf / Heron Quays interchange was within a very space
of time then I'd expect a train captain or RCI to recognise what
happened and not levy a penalty fare. The proximity of stations that are
logical interchanges to the Tube makes it a difficult issue to get right
in all circumstances so discretion should be used in assessing what
someone has done with their Oyster card.
Puzzled by what had happened to me, I approached the member of staff on
board the train. To say that he was uninterested would be an
understatement. When I said I was trying to avoid a penalty fare, he
simply shrugged and said "we don't have checkers" (sic).
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Paul Corfield wrote:

I tend to get that reaction with all security guards who are employed to
loiter around railway stations.

As do I. I also find large collections of police officers, especially
armed, do the same.

The reason why, I suspect, is that their presence indicates that it is
necessary for them to be there (as otherwise they wouldn't be, as
nobody would want to pay for them). There is thus a greater perceived
danger compared to if they were not there.

As to DLR, aren't the "guards" meant to check tickets? (I ask as I
thought they were, but have never seen one do so).

Neil

In article . com,
Neil Williams wrote:
As to DLR, aren't the "guards" meant to check tickets? (I ask as I
thought they were, but have never seen one do so).

He did on the outward leg of my last DLR journey.

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.

Neil Williams wrote:
The reason why, I suspect, is that their presence indicates that it is
necessary for them to be there (as otherwise they wouldn't be, as
nobody would want to pay for them). There is thus a greater perceived
danger compared to if they were not there

Except they generally rotate through various stations to give a highly
visible presence and aren't really acting on any particular
intelligence. Now it's PCSOs that can't really do bugger all, but
probably convince the tourists and the elderly.

When I got searched, it was purely to even out the numbers and the cop
was laughing and joking while really not being interested whatsoever in
what might be in the bag (I wonder if he'd have laughed if I'd shouted
boom as I started to unzip it?). You can't have the ethnic box on the
pink form showing that they only stopped a certain category now can
you? But, why is it that 'those' people get 4-5 officers crowding
around them and they're on their radios doing PNC checks? I'm sent on
my way supposedly thinking I've made a new mate that wants to go for a
few beers after the shift change..

Jonathan

Forgive me as it is a bit off your topic, but a similar situation made
me wonder when I was to London last week.

I had a 7-day travelcard for zones 1 and 2 on my Oystercard and started
one journey at Holland Park on the Central Line, changed at Bank to DLR
and got off at Westferry, did another journey between DLR stations
later on and went back from Canary Wharf on the Jubilee Line.

I swept my card over the reader anytime I entered or exited a DLR
station, but as I understand that was not mandatory? Unless,
eventually, you had touched in at a tube station earlier?

On 31 Aug 2006 09:27:35 -0700, wrote:

Forgive me as it is a bit off your topic, but a similar situation made
me wonder when I was to London last week.

I had a 7-day travelcard for zones 1 and 2 on my Oystercard and started
one journey at Holland Park on the Central Line, changed at Bank to DLR
and got off at Westferry, did another journey between DLR stations
later on and went back from Canary Wharf on the Jubilee Line.

I swept my card over the reader anytime I entered or exited a DLR
station, but as I understand that was not mandatory? Unless,
eventually, you had touched in at a tube station earlier?

This is where the mix of Travelcard and Pre-Pay on an Oyster card can
get confusing.

Every Oyster card issued to fare paying passengers has the ability to
have a season type ticket (e.g. Travelcard) AND pre-pay on it. Even if
you have no cash loaded to your card the card can still go into negative
value. This arises if you travel beyond the validity of your travelcard
as this would trigger the card to look to the pre-pay "purse". This is
also why there is some benefit in having some cash held on the card if
you can afford to do so.

If you had been travelling beyond zones 1 and 2 and using the pre-pay
functionality then it is hugely to your benefit to validate in and out
on every trip so that the correct incremental extension fare was
deducted and also so the card can calculate if a daily cap would need to
be applied after a certain number of extra out of zonal validity trips.
For this reason it is sensible to validate in and out everywhere.
However you are also correct that you would not suffer any penalty or
loss if you had not bothered to validate your Travelcard at DLR entry
and exit points given the trips you said you made.

soapbox

I really do wish TfL would provide a detailed set of information about
things like this!

soapbox

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!