In message .com, Neil
Williams writes

The Clippers are already damn quick - their staff seem to be very
skilled at docking quickly.

But how many staff does it take to dock? As always, it is staff costs
that will contribute most to the cost of the service.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:

But how many staff does it take to dock? As always, it is staff costs
that will contribute most to the cost of the service.

I think they have 3 "conductors" on the larger boats that do that and
sell tickets.

Neil

In message .com, Neil
Williams writes

Paul Terry wrote:

But how many staff does it take to dock? As always, it is staff costs
that will contribute most to the cost of the service.

I think they have 3 "conductors" on the larger boats that do that and
sell tickets.

That would certainly contribute to the cost issue. On the relatively
tide-less Venetian lagoon, a 150-seater vaporetto can be docked in about
30 seconds by the driver plus one conductor.
--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:

In message .com, Neil
Williams writes

Paul Terry wrote:

But how many staff does it take to dock? As always, it is staff costs
that will contribute most to the cost of the service.

I think they have 3 "conductors" on the larger boats that do that and
sell tickets.

That would certainly contribute to the cost issue. On the relatively
tide-less Venetian lagoon, a 150-seater vaporetto can be docked in about
30 seconds by the driver plus one conductor.

However, while they may need to have more people on the boat doing
this, many of the commuter piers have no staff on them at all. So,
compare say 10 people on average on 6 boats, that's 60 people running
that 'line' to all the staff working on the Jubilee line stations
between Waterloo and North Greenwich. Even Southwark station (probably
one of the smallest on that bit of line) has more people working there
than 1 boat and there's 7 stations in total on that stretch.

There's also generally no problems with 'leaves on the line', 'wrong
sort of pollen' (which affects trains in Wales), 'passenger action' or
general vandalism on the ferry service.

John B wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
I hope the association with the Dome doesnt end up cursing the Clipper
service
As do I - used it once or twice and it's great. It would be good if
TfL bought a load of new boats themselves and made it a full part of
the Travelcard system.
The Assembly members at the GLA have a habit of bringing this up with
TfL, forgetting about it and repeating the cycle every year or so. The
essential point is that Thames river boat services are expensive to run,
and if TfL either ran them itself or allowed the use of Travelcards, the
subsidy per passenger would be very high (much more so than for any
other mode) and it would not be good value for money.

Who subsidises them currently, then?

Any current subsidy levels (e.g. for the trial commuter service to
Woolwich) would probably pale into comparison with the subsidies needed
to allow Travelcard/Oyster PAYG use. AFAIK the current river operations
are mostly commercial (hence the relatively high fares compared to TfL
services).

I'm told that the tidal nature of the Thames has an adverse impact on
the cost of running the services, although I admit to some trouble
understanding this.

Extra fuel? Longer journey times so extra boats required?

My initial impression was that the chances of running against the tide
for any given journey were the same as going with the tide, so the costs
on the former would cancel out on the latter - but some useful
explanations have been provided.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Earlier this week we had the highest tide of the year - 7.7m - 25ft or
thereabouts in old money.

The combination of tides, wind and wash - from everything from fast
craft to cruise ships - explains why piers on the tidal Thames have to
be substantial pieces of civil engineering - costing more than £1m a go
- and why working on one can be a thrill, although that's not what I
used to call it when I was working until 2200hrs or later in the winter.

Ken


On 2006-10-06 09:51:50 +0100, "Rob" said:


Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Dave Arquati
writes

I'm told that the tidal nature of the Thames has an adverse impact on
the cost of running the services, although I admit to some trouble
understanding this.

In addition to the points already made, the strong tides and big
differences between high and low water require expensive, substantial
piers and relatively slow docking procedures.

In contrast, the very low tide-fall in Venice (normally only a few
inches) means that piers can be very lightweight and docking takes just
a few seconds, resulting in much faster and more efficient services.

--
Paul Terry

Just checking out the timetable and Blackfriars to Canary Wharf by boat
works out at 19 mins. By Tube/DLR - between 19 and 23 minutes. River
services usually seem on time when Ive used them for this journey.

Rob