Simon Hobson wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:28:55 +0100, ib wrote
(in message ):

There is never any reason to block a box junction

Oh but there are several :

Local driving standards (politeness) have degenerated so much that if you
don't break the rule you will never get across the junction.

You entered the junction when there was a gap, but some other c**t has nipped
into your gap.

You have estimated that given the speed and spacing of the cars ahead, you
will be able to clear the junction, and by going ahead you will help to keep
the traffic flowing - then some ignorant t**t ahead stops for no reason and
blocks your exit. Of course, he's alright because HE isn't involved with
anything, it's just the trail of problems he leaves behind.

The other side of the junction is round a corner, and you CANNOT see if there
is enough space until you are committed - mostly affects long vehicles, but
not exclusively.


I could go on, but a big factor is the drop in driving standards - which is
being very effectively accellerated by automated enforcement. People ARE now
driving to avoid penalties, not to 'good standards'.



But I have to throw in one other - you are driving a slow vehicle, and the
lights have been through several cycles before you get across ! OK, so it's
rare, but it does apply to some outfits.


Oh, you've been to Scarborough have you? Bad luck!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

David from Oz wrote:
..
Since my box junction offence fine (from the North Circular documented
on these groups) I have been extra vigilant to ensure I do not commit
further offences.

Actually that was discussed on uk.legal and it was questioned whether
you had committed an offence at all as you were waiting to turn right
onto the A406 Eastbound and the exit was presumably not blocked at the
time you entered the box. The only question was whether there was one
box or two.

I used to go ahead, U-turn then turn left. Was always a much quicker
way to get through that junction.

If they really wanted to reduce congestion at that junction then the
options a

1. (Preferable). Back to the original plans.
2. Ban all right turns at that junction. Traffic wishing to head for
the A406 Eastbound from there should find an alternative route. This
might be achieved with a U-turning area in Bowes Road.
3. One way system along Telford Road, Bowes Road, Green Lanes and
Bounds Green Road. Not sure how feasible that would be.

The problem with a box junction can be:

- do you really only enter when the exit is clear or when you predict
the exit will be clear? In free-flowing traffic, for example, but the
car in front hasn't got to the other end yet.

- What do you do then if there would be room but the car in front
stopped just after they had cleared the junction, rather than moving
into the space in front? You know what some are like in traffic queues
with their enormous gaps.