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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
James Farrar wrote: On 26 Nov 2006 14:02:25 -0800, wrote: When going from Island Garden to Liverpool Street I use DLR to Bank and then the Central Line. Do I need to touch out on the readers at Bank as I am going from DLR to LU or is this considered one journey? That is one continuous journey. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#9 says: "How do I use Oyster Pre Pay at Bank station? If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards (obviously you need to do it if you are using the lift to King William Street). PaulO |
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
On 26 Nov 2006 14:35:53 -0800, "Paul Oter"
wrote: James Farrar wrote: On 26 Nov 2006 14:02:25 -0800, wrote: When going from Island Garden to Liverpool Street I use DLR to Bank and then the Central Line. Do I need to touch out on the readers at Bank as I am going from DLR to LU or is this considered one journey? That is one continuous journey. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#9 says: "How do I use Oyster Pre Pay at Bank station? If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Interesting. I can't think of any reason why that would be (there is at least one other DLRLU interchange without intervening gatelines) - unless the thought is that there are possible 2 hour journeys from Beckton/Lewisham. Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards I would say not, as that is not "interchanging with the DLR". |
#3
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
James Farrar wrote in
: On 26 Nov 2006 14:35:53 -0800, "Paul Oter" wrote: James Farrar wrote: On 26 Nov 2006 14:02:25 -0800, wrote: When going from Island Garden to Liverpool Street I use DLR to Bank and then the Central Line. Do I need to touch out on the readers at Bank as I am going from DLR to LU or is this considered one journey? That is one continuous journey. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#9 says: "How do I use Oyster Pre Pay at Bank station? If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Interesting. I can't think of any reason why that would be (there is at least one other DLRLU interchange without intervening gatelines) - unless the thought is that there are possible 2 hour journeys from Beckton/Lewisham. Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards I would say not, as that is not "interchanging with the DLR". As I said once, I got ********ed by a DLR ticket inspector for not touching in at the start of my journey when I was travelling from Old Street to Beckton via Bank. I had used the gates at Old Street but hadn't touched the reader at Bank. His handheld device had no reference to me using the gates on the underground, just that I hadn't validated the DLR part. The thing is, it wasn't even PAYG, it was an annual season ticket!! I have subsequently found out on UTL that the inspector was in the wrong to have quizzed me and I should have taken his details and complained. But at the time, it was most disconcerting. According to the "new rules", PAYG by not touching the reader on Bank platforms would, I guess, be charged £8 (a £4 non-ending tube journey, and a £4 non-starting DLR journey). |
#4
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:34:10 -0600, Tristán White wrote:
When going from Island Garden to Liverpool Street I use DLR to Bank and then the Central Line. Do I need to touch out on the readers at Bank as I am going from DLR to LU or is this considered one journey? As I said once, I got ********ed by a DLR ticket inspector for not touching in at the start of my journey when I was travelling from Old Street to Beckton via Bank. I had used the gates at Old Street but hadn't touched the reader at Bank. His handheld device had no reference to me using the gates on the underground, just that I hadn't validated the DLR part. The thing is, it wasn't even PAYG, it was an annual season ticket!! If his machine couldn't see the season ticket, I reckon the cause was an error reading the card rather than anything to do with the Bank validator. According to the "new rules", PAYG by not touching the reader on Bank platforms would, I guess, be charged £8 (a £4 non-ending tube journey, and a £4 non-starting DLR journey). That seems unlikely to me - the readers would have no way of knowing whether you changed between Tube and DLR at Bank, or at another interchange where no touching is required (e.g. Stratford). Empirical evidence accumulated prior to the introduction of the £4 charge suggested it's absolutely fine to ignore the validator at Bank (and there have been stories of actually being overcharged for touching it, though that issue has most likely been resolved by now). The situation may have changed since, but personally I suspect all it is is a case of crossed wires somewhere between the Oyster system designers and the FAQ authors. |
#5
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#9 says:
"How do I use Oyster Pre Pay at Bank station? If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards (obviously you need to do it if you are using the lift to King William Street). I've never done this, I just touch the reader at my end destination, and have always been charged correctly. Is this only necessary since the £4 charge was implimented? Surely touching on the reader will end your current journey, and when you touch out at the DLR station you get Off at, it will start a new journey? |
#6
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
Paul Oter wrote: If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards (obviously you need to do it if you are using the lift to King William Street). If the question is really "did the passenger go through zone 1" then the same could be the case for other journeys where the user may have gone on Silverlink: 1. Highbury & Islington to Canary Wharf (DLR): Passenger may have changed at Stratford or may have gone down to Moorgate on FirstCapitalConnect then Northern Line to bank then DLR (from experience this is the quicker route). 2. West Brompton to Stratford (not Jubilee). Could go via Silverlink all the way changing at Willesden Junction or could take District Line changing at Mile End. |
#7
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
Earl Purple wrote:
Paul Oter wrote: If you interchange with the DLR at Bank you need to touch your Oyster card flat on the yellow reader again on the DLR concourse. If you do not touch in and out at Bank's DLR concourse you may be charged more than you need. This is not necessary at other interchange stations." Which suggests that you *do* need to touch out at the DLR concourse, though it isn't clear whether you still need to do it if you intend to exit Bank station though the ticket gates immediately afterwards (obviously you need to do it if you are using the lift to King William Street). If the question is really "did the passenger go through zone 1" then the same could be the case for other journeys where the user may have gone on Silverlink: 1. Highbury & Islington to Canary Wharf (DLR): Passenger may have changed at Stratford or may have gone down to Moorgate on FirstCapitalConnect then Northern Line to bank then DLR (from experience this is the quicker route). 2. West Brompton to Stratford (not Jubilee). Could go via Silverlink all the way changing at Willesden Junction or could take District Line changing at Mile End. Oyster PAYG is not valid on the Silverlink routes in your examples even though it is "technically" possible to touch-in/out correctly on the journeys. But I have noticed another interesting thing about the via-or-not-via zone 1 question. If I travel from Tottenham Hale to Canada Water by tube, it charges zone 3-1. Okay. But if I continue to Canary Wharf I will pay less because it then charges a zone 3-2 only. Then one wonder how it would be possible to touch in on the tube network at T. Hale and out at Canary Wharf without going through zone 1... Okay, I can (and most times do) take the 'one' to Stratford and then DLR from there, PAYG is valid on that route too, but in that case I have found out that I have to validate at Stratford too because otherwise the DLR validator at CW tell me it is an entry when I exit there so I don't think that is the possible not-via-zone-1 route they are thinking about here. -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: http://here.is/olof |
#8
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:16:59 GMT, Olof Lagerkvist
wrote: But I have noticed another interesting thing about the via-or-not-via zone 1 question. If I travel from Tottenham Hale to Canada Water by tube, it charges zone 3-1. Okay. But if I continue to Canary Wharf I will pay less because it then charges a zone 3-2 only. Then one wonder how it would be possible to touch in on the tube network at T. Hale and out at Canary Wharf without going through zone 1... Okay, I can (and most times do) take the 'one' to Stratford and then DLR from there, PAYG is valid on that route too, but in that case I have found out that I have to validate at Stratford too because otherwise the DLR validator at CW tell me it is an entry when I exit there so I don't think that is the possible not-via-zone-1 route they are thinking about here. I assume you validate "in" at Tottenham Hale in your example? You then validate "in" again at Stratford for DLR and then "out" at Canary Wharf? I've not investigated the north side of Stratford Station - are there validators on or near the "one" platforms for trains to Tottenham Hale (and north thereof)? If so, a very interesting set of logic at work there. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
#9
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
Paul Corfield wrote:
Okay, I can (and most times do) take the 'one' to Stratford and then DLR from there, PAYG is valid on that route too, but in that case I have found out that I have to validate at Stratford too because otherwise the DLR validator at CW tell me it is an entry when I exit there so I don't think that is the possible not-via-zone-1 route they are thinking about here. I assume you validate "in" at Tottenham Hale in your example? Yes. You then validate "in" again at Stratford for DLR and then "out" at Canary Wharf? Yes, but there is always a question about what is a correct "in" a Stratford in this case. When I touch the DLR validator it seems to exit the 'one' journey and enter a DLR journey correctly and it works correctly as an exit later at Canary Wharf. But if I do not validate at all at Stratford, or only on the 'one' validator, it does not register an exit but instead an entry at Wharf. DLR validators can not possibly require a DLR touch-in in all cases for a DLR touch-out to work correctly, can they? But if so, that would explain this. But then again there must be some exceptions because it is still not the same logic as used at Bank for instance because it is possible to touche-in a tube journey, change to DLR at Bank without validating and then touch-out at Canary Wharf. For some reason I have never done the opposit, DLR to 'one' at Stratford. It would be interesting to see what the 'one' validator says at Stratford if I touch-in on DLR at Canary Wharf and not touch-out on the DLR validator at Stratford but then touch the 'one' validator there. I've not investigated the north side of Stratford Station - are there validators on or near the "one" platforms for trains to Tottenham Hale (and north thereof)? Yes, but they only seem to exit the 'one' journey, not start/continue a DLR journey. If so, a very interesting set of logic at work there. Yes, I don't really get how it works. But it is clearly different from the logic at Bank for example. But Stratford is not possible to compare to anything else because there are no more places where it is possible to change from NR PAYG to DLR PAYG (at least not any I can think of now). On other NR-DLR interchange stations PAYG is not valid on NR. -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: http://here.is/olof |
#10
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Oyster PAYG Island Gardens via Bank to Liverpool Street
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:06:01 GMT, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
Okay, I can (and most times do) take the 'one' to Stratford and then DLR from there, PAYG is valid on that route too, but in that case I have found out that I have to validate at Stratford too because otherwise the DLR validator at CW tell me it is an entry when I exit there so I don't think that is the possible not-via-zone-1 route they are thinking about here. I assume you validate "in" at Tottenham Hale in your example? Yes. You then validate "in" again at Stratford for DLR and then "out" at Canary Wharf? Yes, but there is always a question about what is a correct "in" a Stratford in this case. When I touch the DLR validator it seems to exit the 'one' journey and enter a DLR journey correctly UIVMM this is not how the PAYG system works. It's all one PAYG journey and there is no concept of it being divided into separate 'one' and DLR journeys. and it works correctly as an exit later at Canary Wharf. But if I do not validate at all at Stratford, or only on the 'one' validator, it does not register an exit but instead an entry at Wharf. Regarding the latter case, perhaps the 'one' validator is set to "entry or exit" rather than "entry, exit, or interchange" (I don't know the official terms so I've made these ones up). But I'm at a loss to explain why it happens when you don't touch at Stratford at all. Even the official TfL instructions state that you don't need to touch a validator when interchanging, except at Bank: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#9 When you say the DLR validator at Canary Wharf registers an entry, is that according to your journey history, or just the LCD display by the validator? Perhaps (I haven't checked) when the decision of a validator's logic is "exit or interchange", it displays "enter" even though you could actually be exiting. Yes, I don't really get how it works. But it is clearly different from the logic at Bank for example. But Stratford is not possible to compare to anything else because there are no more places where it is possible to change from NR PAYG to DLR PAYG (at least not any I can think of now). Canning Town, Limehouse |
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