"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...

Anyway I'd suggest that Epping to Ongar ain't going to be part of the
Central line again. The original reasons for it closing, that of lack
of passengers, almost certainly still apply. Plus any plans to reopen
it would have to be backed by the DfT, and also paid for (in part at
least) by the DfT too. In the big scheme of things other projects are
far more worthy than a recently closed line - a line that was closed
because it never really drew the crowds needed to justify it's
existence.


I wonder if they've ever considered extending it a few miles to link up with
the main line and running services from Ongar to Chelmsford?

It's pretty much open land and green belt in that area IIRC, so probably
cheaper than building a new surface line in most other places.

BTN

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:24:47 GMT, wrote:


"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
wrote:

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Pretty much. Leaving aside ownership of the line, power supply issues, the
stock used and so forth, a key problem is that it's so far out and remote
that it would be reliant on a lot of Park and Go travellers, or those
brought in by buses. And you'd need very skewed fares and/or car parking
rates to make it economical for passengers to use North Weald and Ongar
rather than Epping or other stations.


Do you think there is a danger of Epping closing?

Not at all - why on earth would it close? I don't believe Essex County
Council have any say on this section of line - when they did back in the
80s then there were constant threats of cutbacks. While TfL does not
levy a precept on residents who live in Essex (so therefore the section
beyond Woodford is what we are talking about) a decent slice of its
finances come from central government and thus all taxpayers across the
country. Therefore local residents pay via their taxes and fares (if
they use the line for travel).

It's a pretty busy station and a railhead for the surrounding area - I
understand the car park is full every working day. I can imagine there
would be a huge outcry if the line was suggested for closure. The
writing off of large sums of recent expenditure in the train fleet,
tracks, embankment stabilisation and signals / control systems would
also be questionable as well.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Would it ever be possible that the Epping & Ongar railway could be
developed into a regional short line?

I seem to remember that they have plans to do some work to restore the line,
using diesel rolling stock, so it would eliminate the need for any sort of
electrical infarstructure.

I have also heard that local people in the area use it.

'Anything to this?

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Probably. As things stand at present, there are simply too many
obstacles:-

1) Cost - the track will probably require total renewal, new signalling
will be needed, and at least one new substation would need to be built.
All this, especially the signalling, is very expensive.

2) Layout - even if a passing loop were reinstated at North Weald the
line is going to have a very infrequent service, which is what killed
it in the first place. Likewise, through trains from London would
probably not be workable because of the risk of the long single-line
section transmitting delays to the entire line.

3) Trains - there aren't enough 92ts as it is, without anything between
one and three trains being needed for a reinstated Ongar service.

4) Capacity at Epping - with Epping now seeing a very high frequency of
trains, the station layout there would be a major headache.

5) Long way from London - Ken is interested in projects in the centre,
and normally for the benefit of deprived areas (ELLX, DLR to Stratford
Int). Serving Essex isn't going to be a priority.


IMO the only chance for the line serving Ongar again is if there is
ever a big scheme to develop the green space around Ongar or North
Weald. It's quite possible some developer might come up with the
"brainwave" of building houses with a ready-made Tube link (well,
almost), but there would probably be a *lot* of local opposition. If
this ever happens, I'd imagine most of the costs would be borne by
private financiers, and the line would get totally upgraded. Not
impossible, but hardly likely either.

wrote:
Would it ever be possible that the Epping & Ongar railway could be
developed into a regional short line?

I seem to remember that they have plans to do some work to restore the
line, using diesel rolling stock, so it would eliminate the need for any
sort of electrical infarstructure.

I have also heard that local people in the area use it.

Do you mean:
http://www.eorailway.co.uk/
and
http://ukhrail.uel.ac.uk/eor/mixtraf.html

or something else?

Theo

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Sir Benjamin Nunn wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...

Anyway I'd suggest that Epping to Ongar ain't going to be part of the
Central line again.

I wonder if they've ever considered extending it a few miles to link up
with the main line and running services from Ongar to Chelmsford?

What would the point be? There's already a much faster route from
Chelmsford to London along the fast tracks of the GEML. The only use i can
see for a Central line extension to Chelmsford would be as a local
commuter service into Chelmsford - and even then, only from Ongar, Epping
and points south, since there are no settlements between Ongar and
Chelmsford. Is there demand for such a thing?

However, that link might be useful, as part of the NR network, if a some
other bits of track could be constructed - a link from Epping to Harlow
would allow trains to run from the GEML up to Stanstead and Cambridge
(although an extension of the Braintree brach might make more sense), and
some sort of link to the ECML, say along the M25 or via the West Anglia
line to Hertford, would allow freight trains the haven ports to get up
north without going via London (although upgrading the existing Ely -
Peterborough route would almost certainly make more sense).

tom

--
wicked wicked jungle is massive i said wicked wicked jungle is massive
well big up cos this is the incredible genral -- fabien, sniffunsnuffun
town(scotland)

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Sir Benjamin Nunn wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...

Anyway I'd suggest that Epping to Ongar ain't going to be part of the
Central line again.

I wonder if they've ever considered extending it a few miles to link
up with the main line and running services from Ongar to Chelmsford?

What would the point be? There's already a much faster route from
Chelmsford to London along the fast tracks of the GEML. The only use i
can see for a Central line extension to Chelmsford would be as a local
commuter service into Chelmsford - and even then, only from Ongar,
Epping and points south, since there are no settlements between Ongar
and Chelmsford. Is there demand for such a thing?

However, that link might be useful, as part of the NR network, if a some
other bits of track could be constructed - a link from Epping to Harlow
would allow trains to run from the GEML up to Stanstead and Cambridge
(although an extension of the Braintree brach might make more sense),
and some sort of link to the ECML, say along the M25 or via the West
Anglia line to Hertford, would allow freight trains the haven ports to
get up north without going via London (although upgrading the existing
Ely - Peterborough route would almost certainly make more sense).

I wondered if they might try using Crossrail 2 to serve the
London-Cambridge growth corridor by taking over the Central from
Woodford (or Leytonstone) northwards to Epping, then extending to Harlow
to meet up with the West Anglia route and heading to Stansted and
Cambridge. This sentiment is similar to the Superlink proposal for
Crossrail 1 (although that had no stops between Canary Wharf and Harlow
South!).


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Tom Anderson wrote:

However, that link might be useful, as part of the NR network, if a
some other bits of track could be constructed - a link from Epping to
Harlow would allow trains to run from the GEML up to Stanstead and
Cambridge (although an extension of the Braintree brach might make
more sense),

Especially since the original trackbed from Braintree to Bishops Stortford
is AFAIK entirely still there, apart from the bit which was converted to the
old Great Dunmow Bypass, which road has been rendered pretty redundant by
the new A120.