North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 19, 10:44 pm, James Farrar wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 14:43:56 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:





On Mar 19, 7:12 pm, James Farrar wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 11:07:38 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:

But I do have to change at the boundary on LU. It happens to me
repeatedly when, for practical reasons, I have a paper travelcard for
zones 1 and 2 plus some Oyster PAYG credit and have to go so somewhere
like Canning town (as I did on several occasions last year). I had to
keep changing at North Greenwich, which involves quite a long trip to
the gates, adding about ten minutes in each direction.

Yeah, looks really practical to me.

?

"Practical" refers to why I would have a paper travelcard for everyday
use (Oyster shop in opposite direction to station etc.)

The ten-minute change is what I then have to do in order to use my
PAYG credit to go an extra zone occasionally, or else pay £4 for an
extension.

If you're wasting 10 minutes changing at a station, I suggest that
having a paper travelcard is not practical


Oh OK. I'll move house then.

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 19, 10:05 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article . com,

(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

That is steady/declining, while container freight from the
ports is booming, which is the root of this problem.

The containers don't *all* go to the Midlands and "oop North".

I'd say most of the ones that go /by train/ do - London containers
are largely trucked in direct from Tilbury/Felixstowe, I'd assume.

How many rail container facilities are there in London, then?

Just Tilbury and Willesden, I guess - that's why I assume most
containers come by truck ie lorry.

North London Line Revisited
 

wrote in message
oups.com...


I think there is a link in the mass of lines near Kings Cross from CTRL
onto the NLL and possibly other lines but that might involve reversal.

That's the CTRL on the right and the NLL junction on the left:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?om=1&i...2,0.022917&t=k

So this is actually a very good route, but I doubnt it'd be allowed.

Not sure how Network Rail will look after CTRL

I don't know if they will look after it. They certainly don't own it.


Network Rail (CTRL) Ltd, a subsidiary company of Network Rail Infrastructure
Ltd have the concession to operate, maintain and renew the CTRL, and to run
St Pancras station.

I'm no expert, but I suspect once London & Continental Railways (LCR) have
completed the railway, they will sell it on to someone else, and concentrate
on the building projects on the Kings Cross railway lands and at Stratford
City. I think they tried to sell the railway in 2005 or so, but the
government persuaded them to wait until it is finished...

Paul

North London Line Revisited
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

A great pity that their procedures didn't spot your considerable
expertise, in my view.

Oh I read the JD and just thought "that's the job for me". I genuinely
felt I could do most of it "standing on my head" while other bits would
be a genuine challenge / development area. Still I'm sure the American
(I assume she is given her education background) lady who has got the
job will do just fine.

I could make a pithy response about the selection process but I know a
fair number of colleagues read this so for once I'll keep my gob shut
about our HR department ;-)

I suppose that means I'll have to keep schtum about my experiences with
them too then :s
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

North London Line Revisited
 

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007, wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:05 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

If not I expect the nearest junction is
somewhere in Kent which doesn't really provide any solution with respect
to freight from north of the Thames.

The tunnel mouth is here in Dagenham:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51....917&t =k&om=1

Immediately north of it is the LTS line where all the freight arrives in
London from, so a junction here would be very easy.

Not all - only that from Tilbury and Dagenham (and Shell Haven when/if it
opens); trains from Felixstowe et al come in on the GEML, to the north. I
don't think there's any way from the GEML to the LTS east of the portal,
at least not without reversing.

Still, the LTS fraction of the freight is not insubstantial (about half, i
think), the volume will increase if Shell Haven happens, so this could be
very useful.

It's a shame that the portal is to the east of the Ripple Lane yard - that
means intermodal traffic coming through there can't use it (although i
suppose a reversing siding to the wast would not be impossible). That
said, i don't know how busy Ripple Lane is these days; i vaguely remember
reading that it's going or gone. Or am i thinking of LIFT at Stratford?
Anyway, the portal is at least to the west of the huge Ford works at
Dagenham.

tom

--
Destroy - kill all hippies.

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, John Rowland wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

some freight actually originates and terminates in London!

Where? TIA.

Depends on what you mean by 'in London', but the Ford works/dock at
Dagenham, Cricklewood has a 'freight village' which is mostly an
intermodal transfer site plus a rubbish incinerator, there's another such
thing in Wembley, and there are aggregates terminals, where concrete and
such is brought in by rail and put into trucks to go to building sites,
all over the place. Some sort of oil stuff at Poyle, out west. Another
rubbish thing in Brentford. More besides that, i think. Plans are afoot to
build more intermodal terminals around the M25, but they're fairly
speculative, i think.

The London Construction Consolidation Centre does not seem to be
rail-connected, despite being next to a couple of railway lines. A
shortsighted decision, but one that might be rectifiable.

tom

--
Destroy - kill all hippies.

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Adrian wrote:

On Mar 18, 8:27 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article .com,

(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:20 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

Part of the problem is the number of larger containers that are
currently only passed for the route via the NLL. IIRC Hutchinson
Ports have already offered to contribute towards gauge enhancements
on the Ipswich to Peterborough route, to allow trains to run that
way.

Which is what I meant by widening. The sooner the better!

You going to pay the cost of double tracking from Soham to Ely?

Also, some people here seem to be overlooking that some freight actually
originates and terminates in London!

It certainly does. However, my guess is that the major part by for is
destined for points north of the freight arc I have described elsewhere.

Da.

We really need some statistics on the origin and destination of freight
flows within the UK. Does anyone utilizing these groups have such?

I'm pretty sure i've seen detailed numbers in a RUS of some sort - you
might like to have a poke about on the SRA or DfT websites and see if you
can turn one up. The maps in this:

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/symondsnera.pdf

Are rather good, though. See also (for London):

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/..._3_30-6-06.pdf
http://www.riig.org/press-release-vi...ng-london.html

tom

--
Destroy - kill all hippies.

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 19, 3:53 pm, "TimB" wrote:
On Mar 19, 10:05 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article . com,

(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

That is steady/declining, while container freight from the
ports is booming, which is the root of this problem.

The containers don't *all* go to the Midlands and "oop North".

I'd say most of the ones that go /by train/ do - London containers
are largely trucked in direct from Tilbury/Felixstowe, I'd assume.

How many rail container facilities are there in London, then?

Just Tilbury and Willesden, I guess - that's why I assume most
containers come by truck ie lorry.

Well that pretty much covers what I was looking for in my request for
statistics. It would seem that most freight utilizing the North
London Line is not bound for London. Some maybe terminating at
Willesden.

A four track NLL may well segregate the two traffic flows. But, it
does not spare Londonners the noise, dust and polution created by the
freight flows that should be routed elsewhere.

Adrian

Adrian

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 20, 12:13 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Adrian wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:27 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article .com,

(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:20 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

Part of the problem is the number of larger containers that are
currently only passed for the route via the NLL. IIRC Hutchinson
Ports have already offered to contribute towards gauge enhancements
on the Ipswich to Peterborough route, to allow trains to run that
way.

Which is what I meant by widening. The sooner the better!

You going to pay the cost of double tracking from Soham to Ely?

Also, some people here seem to be overlooking that some freight actually
originates and terminates in London!

It certainly does. However, my guess is that the major part by for is
destined for points north of the freight arc I have described elsewhere.

Da.

We really need some statistics on the origin and destination of freight
flows within the UK. Does anyone utilizing these groups have such?

I'm pretty sure i've seen detailed numbers in a RUS of some sort - you
might like to have a poke about on the SRA or DfT websites and see if you
can turn one up. The maps in this:

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/symondsnera.pdf

Are rather good, though. See also (for London):

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...ng-london.html

tom



Thank you, thank you!

Adrian

North London Line Revisited
 

In article .com,
(TimB) wrote:

On Mar 19, 10:05 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article . com,

(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 19, 6:35 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel)
wrote:

That is steady/declining, while container freight from the
ports is booming, which is the root of this problem.

The containers don't *all* go to the Midlands and "oop North".

I'd say most of the ones that go /by train/ do - London
containers are largely trucked in direct from Tilbury/Felixstowe,
I'd assume.

How many rail container facilities are there in London, then?

Just Tilbury and Willesden, I guess - that's why I assume most
containers come by truck ie lorry.

And how do they get to Willesden then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel