North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 16, 2:08 pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

Ok, my two pennorth on how to improve the NLL.
1. Get the stations manned ! That will give control over the fare dodgers
who seem to think the service is free. It will also give more control of
the huge amount of haulage that goes on. Plus it will get rid of the
impression that no one is in charge of it.

Agree.

2. Get longer trains now. Not in 5 or 7 years but make it a priority to
get the platforms enlarged and get the 4 carriage trains within the year
and extend to 6 carriages by 2012.

Good idea but... Some stations could have the platforms easily lengthened by
bringing back into service the extremes. Others can't - you're looking at
stations in cuttings or on embankments/viaducts where a lot of demolition
and construction would be needed, with all the planning permissions and
other hassles that involves.

3. Get all the mile long goods trains to run at night. No exceptions.
During the day it's for carrying Londoners, not bags of cement.

Yes but there's not much time at night and then the freight has to run on
other lines as well. How about that freight link bypass for London that's
been proposed on this group?

4. Get the staff trained in how to deal with the public. I see the
problems the Tube got rid of years ago. Not a huge moan about obviously
tired and harassed staff.... they just need training.

No comment - I either hardly ever see staff or the main stations I use
(Stratford, Highbury & Islington, Richmond) have other company staff so it's
hard to know who's who.

Strangely the freight bypass has, in part, recently been mentioned in
a RUS. Unfortunately not the part that would really help the NLL.

The recent freight RUS has suggested that re-
opening of the Oxford, Claydon, Bletchley line could offer a
preferable Up routeing option for Southampton container services.

Unfortunately for the NLL it the Felixstowe container trafic that is,
in part, clogging the NLL. To divert that we need the Bletchly,
Cambridge section, plus some!

Adrian

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 16, 9:35 pm, "Adrian" wrote:

Unfortunately for the NLL it the Felixstowe container trafic that is,
in part, clogging the NLL. To divert that we need the Bletchly,
Cambridge section, plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

North London Line Revisited
 

"Adrian" wrote in message
ups.com...


Strangely the freight bypass has, in part, recently been mentioned in
a RUS. Unfortunately not the part that would really help the NLL.

The recent freight RUS has suggested that re-
opening of the Oxford, Claydon, Bletchley line could offer a
preferable Up routeing option for Southampton container services.


This proposal in the Freight RUS has nothing to do with the London area. Its
to do avoiding with the flat crossing currently required at Nuneaton, where
trains have to cross 3 of the 4 WCML tracks on their way to Coventry,
eventually to gain the Cherwell valley route to Oxford, Reading and
Basingstoke, thence Southampton.

Paul

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 16, 3:09 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message

ups.com...



Strangely the freight bypass has, in part, recently been mentioned in
a RUS. Unfortunately not the part that would really help the NLL.

The recent freight RUS has suggested that re-
opening of the Oxford, Claydon, Bletchley line could offer a
preferable Up routeing option for Southampton container services.

This proposal in the Freight RUS has nothing to do with the London area. Its
to do avoiding with the flat crossing currently required at Nuneaton, where
trains have to cross 3 of the 4 WCML tracks on their way to Coventry,
eventually to gain the Cherwell valley route to Oxford, Reading and
Basingstoke, thence Southampton.

Paul

Understood, however, it just happens to use part of the freight bypass
discussed here.

Adrian

North London Line Revisited
 

TimB wrote:
On Mar 16, 9:35 pm, "Adrian" wrote:

Unfortunately for the NLL it the Felixstowe container trafic that is,
in part, clogging the NLL. To divert that we need the Bletchly,
Cambridge section, plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

Part of the problem is the number of larger containers that are currently
only passed for the route via the NLL. IIRC Hutchinson Ports have already
offered to contribute towards gauge enhancements on the Ipswich to
Peterborough route, to allow trains to run that way.

North London Line Revisited
 

On Mar 16, 10:20 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

Part of the problem is the number of larger containers that are currently
only passed for the route via the NLL. IIRC Hutchinson Ports have already
offered to contribute towards gauge enhancements on the Ipswich to
Peterborough route, to allow trains to run that way.

Which is what I meant by widening. The sooner the better!

North London Line Revisited
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:06:34 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ?

Please note these responses are from memory and I have not checked
websites.

Mobilis is the day ticket. Carnet is for more occasional users. They
have not yet implemented a PAYG system but seasons are on Smartcard. If
you want to be ripped off you can buy a Paris Visite - just like the way
we used to rip off tourists with Visitor Travelcards. I don't recall
people howling about how unfair that was and how discriminatory it was
given the accusations placed against Oyster.

Are you aware where you
buy it ?

Every SNCF and RATP station in Paris system will sell a Mobilis, every
RATP station will sell a Carnet and you can buy Paris Visite at Waterloo
Eurostar if you want. You used to be able to buy on the train but I
think that's been stopped now.

How about New York,

Metrocard - either in a PAYG type format but with an effective %
discount or unlimited rides over a fixed time period. All Subway
stations with a manned ticket booth sell them as a minimum. There may be
other outlets but it's been years since I've been to NYC. until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

or maybe Moscow ?

Never been and never checked. From memory there used to be tokens in
use but I understand a smartcard system has been installed on the Moscow
Metro. Representatives came across to see London's early smartcard
trials at Harrow and were very impressed.

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Hong Kong is Octopus and I held one of those cards for years and years
until the card regrettably failed on my penultimate journey on my last
visit there.

None of this is remotely difficult to deal with or understand. Just
about every guide book I have ever bought has a decent section on local
public transport and tickets and my Rough Guide to London (2003 edition
so before Oyster) has a good, clear explanation of ticketing options
available then. I imagine it deals with Oyster in the same way in the
latest edition.

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

As Mr Jelf will vouch a great many tourists are so terrified by the mere
thought of going anywhere by public transport that they never travel by
tube or by bus. Personally I think they are missing out hugely but
obviously you are routinely raped, attacked and assaulted every time you
go within ½ a mile of a bus stop or tube platform ;-)

As for the rest many people are in possession of brains and do suitable
research in advance of arrival - as I do when I visit somewhere else.
This group provides a decent amount of informal advice on exactly this
subject.

TfL are taking additional steps to improve the availability of Oyster
based travel to visitors and I'm sure it will be just as good as it was
when the old network of agents were tasked with flogging overpriced
Visitor Travelcards.

Usually my first purchase on arrival is a ride at will ticket that gives
me freedom and flexibility to go as I please. I have never encountered
a problem with doing this anywhere in the world.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

Which is simply not going to happen. There will be no return to the old
system although I imagine differentials may moderate once Oyster is
available on all modes across all of London and take up rates on Oyster
are very high.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North London Line Revisited
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:22:02 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , Paul Scott
writes


I feel there is a real risk that the shiny new trains will attract even more
new passengers than they have space for - its a pity the planned service
frequency increases can't be guaranteed to be delivered at the same time as
the trains...

Ok, my two pennorth on how to improve the NLL.

1. Get the stations manned ! That will give control over the fare
dodgers who seem to think the service is free. It will also give more
control of the huge amount of haulage that goes on. Plus it will get rid
of the impression that no one is in charge of it.

TfL will fix this.

2. Get longer trains now. Not in 5 or 7 years but make it a priority to
get the platforms enlarged and get the 4 carriage trains within the year
and extend to 6 carriages by 2012.

To be fair this is not achieveable in the short timescale you specify.
Whether we like it or not getting new and longer trains into service
takes time for a pile of good reasons even if the public might not like
or understand those reasons.

3. Get all the mile long goods trains to run at night. No exceptions.
During the day it's for carrying Londoners, not bags of cement.

If you were to insist on this then it is likely the cement will go by
lorry and wreck London's streets. I take the point but rail freight
customers do have access rights under the NR regime so they have an
entitlement to daytime paths that is protected under rail regulation.

I would prefer that there was a policy to provide additional track,
siding and signalling capacity to correctly cater for passenger and
freight traffic in the most effective manner to meet both sets of needs.

4. Get the staff trained in how to deal with the public. I see the
problems the Tube got rid of years ago. Not a huge moan about obviously
tired and harassed staff.... they just need training.

I am sure TfL and their concessionaire will do that too.

Ok, that'll do for starters :-)

I expected a longer list.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North London Line Revisited
 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:11:35 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
Well I've now done three weeks on the North London Line and it's been an
experience.

Then there is Highbury & Islington ! You can hear people on mobiles
telling friends, "We're at Highbury and Islington, there'll be trouble,
there always is." The train pulls in and the people on the platform are
so packed in that they can't make a gap for the people getting off. A
sort of scrum develops and people moan at each other. The frontier
express spirit would still mean nothing serious would happen, but the
staff at Highbury & Islington then play their trump card. They start
shouting at people through megaphones (honest) and of course that gets
things nicely heated up and trouble ensues. Eventually a lone police
woman comes down the stairs, uses a bit of common sense, stops the staff
shouting and order is restored.

I was reliably informed today that trains arriving at Highbury &
Islington on the NLL are (officially) the most crowded in London. I'm
sure that's no surprise to you (but it usually is to everyone else who
thinks their trains are the most packed in London, and can't understand
how trains on a line that doesn't even go *into* central London can be
more crowded)!!

I have to say I was a bit surprised to read both of these comments. They
are rather revealing though. I am now somewhat intrigued and may well
toddle along sometime to take a look at just how awful it is. I shall
try to stay in a place where I am not in the way though!

If it is like this now I cannot imagine what will happen when
improvements to the overall service start being delivered and suppressed
demand starts to be unlocked - it'll be (even more) awful! That's a
very real challenge for whoever will be running the service. LU will be
taking over the operation of those platforms / station buildings come
November so there the local staff will have all that to deal with.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North London Line Revisited
 

David of Broadway wrote

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at
Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or
ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Me me me (I live near but outside the zones on a NR line).

And for me a paper one day travel card was better value and now I have
a railcard, even better value.

Things may be different in 2009 (SWT's date for Oyster launch according
to their free mag)

--
Mike D