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Old August 9th 03, 10:46 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems


"john" wrote in message
...
I know it's a bit off topic, but do any other cities (other than London)

in
the UK have a subway system?


Glasgow does, and Newcastle has a light-rail system called the "Metro", part
of which is underground.



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Old August 9th 03, 11:25 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

ah, thanks for the info.

ok, now for a dumb question... What about the word tube for the London
trains? I take it this refers to the tubular shape of most of the
lines/trains?


"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"M J Forbes" wrote in message
...

"john" wrote in message
...
I know it's a bit off topic, but do any other cities (other than

London)
in
the UK have a subway system?


Glasgow does, and Newcastle has a light-rail system called the "Metro",

part
of which is underground.


Also, here in the UK we tend to use the word "subway" to describe a
pedestrian underpass beneath a road, rather than an underground railway
system.

Are any of the lines in central Liverpool classed as being an underground
system, or are they all just part of the National Rail system which

happens
to go below ground?




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Old August 9th 03, 01:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...

Also, here in the UK we tend to use the word "subway"
to describe a pedestrian underpass beneath a road,
rather than an underground railway system.


No: in Glasgow the underground railway is referred to by most people as "The
Subway". In London "subway" can only mean a pedestrian underpass. There are
similar differences in terminology between different US cities.

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Old August 9th 03, 01:28 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

John Rowland writes
Also, here in the UK we tend to use the word "subway"
to describe a pedestrian underpass beneath a road,
rather than an underground railway system.


No: in Glasgow the underground railway is referred to by most people as
"The Subway". In London "subway" can only mean a pedestrian underpass.


Er, he did say 'tend to use' - not 'exclusively use'.

In Glasgow, the system's official name has only recently reverted to
being the 'Subway' after more than 20 years of officially being the
'Underground'

--
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Old August 9th 03, 03:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

In article , John Rowland
writes
No: in Glasgow the underground railway is referred to by most people as "The
Subway"


I disagree, they call it the 'Clockwork Orange.'
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Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
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Old August 9th 03, 03:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

Martin Underwood wrote:


Are any of the lines in central Liverpool classed as being an underground
system, or are they all just part of the National Rail system which happens
to go below ground?


There are signs saying "to the Underground" at Liverpool Lime Street
Station, if that helps.

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Old August 9th 03, 03:43 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

Andrew P Smith writes
No: in Glasgow the underground railway is referred to by most people as "The
Subway"


I disagree, they call it the 'Clockwork Orange.'


Only meeja types do. I've *never* heard a local call it that.

--
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Old August 9th 03, 10:56 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:18:38 GMT, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

Are any of the lines in central Liverpool classed as being an underground
system, or are they all just part of the National Rail system which happens
to go below ground?


It's a bit of a grey area, really - AFAIAC, as a self-contained
system, it's an underground (if a small one) - I'd say it was more an
accident of timing that it ended up remaining part of the national
rail system, as IMO if it had been built in the last 10 years it'd
have been a PTE job like Metrolink or the Newcastle Metro.

Neil

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Old August 10th 03, 07:53 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

Martin Underwood:
Also, here in the UK we tend to use the word "subway"
to describe a pedestrian underpass beneath a road,
rather than an underground railway system.


John Rowland:
No: in Glasgow the underground railway is referred to by most
people as "The Subway". In London "subway" can only mean a
pedestrian underpass.


Dave writes:
In Glasgow, the system's official name has only recently reverted to
being the 'Subway' after more than 20 years of officially being the
'Underground'


But it was officially the Subway for more than 70 years before that.

As well as pedestrian tunnels, the word "subway" in Britain also seems
to be associated with underground railways using cable haulage. The
first of these was in London, a very short line operated by a single
car for just a few months before it failed, and it was called the
Tower Subway.

Later a longer underground cable railway was planned for London, and
it was going to be called the City of London and Southwark Subway.
The management changed their minds while it was under construction,
substituting electric locomotives, and then changed the name to the
City and South London Railway.

(For more on both lines, see the Northern Line page of CULG
http://www.davros.org/rail/culg.)

And the Glasgow Subway used cable-hauled trains from 1896 until 1935.
--
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Toronto | English. This request always surprises him, as he
| is always under the extraordinary impression that
| he has done so. -- Lynn & Jay, "Yes Minister"

My text in this article is in the public domain.
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Old August 10th 03, 08:07 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default UK subway systems

ok, now for a dumb question... What about the word tube for
the London trains? I take it this refers to the tubular
shape of most of the lines/trains?


Correct,


Specifically, it's the shape of the tunnels.

and originally applied to the deep level railways, i.e excluding
the District and the Met, the latter operates the Hammersmith and
City, the Circle and the East London Lines.


Right. The deep-level lines -- which were owned by separate companies
in those days -- might have been at a disadvantage because you had to
wait for a lift (elevator) just to get to the platforms. (Escalators
came later.) But they also had the advantage that their trains were
electric, so the stations weren't full of steam and smoke. So they
marketed themselves as being a New And Improved kind of underground
railway, and the word "tube" was featured in this marketing.

In due course the older lines electrified and got rid of their steam
locomotives, at least on the underground parts, and competition between
lines became irrelevant as they fell under common ownership. By then
the short word "tube" had become established in popular usage, and as
the practical distinctions faded, it spread to the other lines as well.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "You keep using that word. I do not think it means
| what you think it means." -- The Princess Bride

My text in this article is in the public domain.


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