Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency. The only was to
evacuate a tube train in a tunnel would be through the M (driver's
cab out to the world) and J (passenger saloon to driver's cab) doors.
There's not a lot of room to start with and a bike or two would make
things really difficult.

But surely it's the people that would need to be evacuated, rather than
their possessions? Couldn't (shouldn't!) the bike remain on the train,
to be hopefully collected later, especially if it was a situation
requiring a speedy, emergency evacuation.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar manner,
I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many Heathrow passengers
would cause just as many problems if passengers tried to bring them
through the front of the train. But they're not banned from the tube!

Iain

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede evacuation
of the (tube) train in an emergency. The only was to evacuate a tube
train in a tunnel would be through the M (driver's cab out to the
world) and J (passenger saloon to driver's cab) doors. There's not a
lot of room to start with and a bike or two would make things really
difficult.

But surely it's the people that would need to be evacuated, rather than
their possessions? Couldn't (shouldn't!) the bike remain on the train,
to be hopefully collected later, especially if it was a situation
requiring a speedy, emergency evacuation.

Yes. But getting hundreds of people along a train is easier if there
aren't bikes hanging around in the vestibules.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar manner,
I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many Heathrow passengers
would cause just as many problems if passengers tried to bring them
through the front of the train.

Or even if they left them where they were.

But they're not banned from the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as strong for
luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden by practical
needs.

tom

--
You have to give up

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:02:45 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

I thought the bike thing was to do with the need to be able to evacuate
out the ends. Does Merseyrail have tunnels where it's possible to go out
the sides instead?

The Loop tunnels are fairly tight, but I imagine it would be possible
to squeeze out between the train and the tunnel walls in most places -
though I doubt that would be the official evacuation route.

It's probably because the coaches are wider and as such a bike can be
easily moved out of the way. I note that they appear to be permitted on
all sections of the (larger) sub-surface lines.

It's my understanding that, due to the tunnels being much wider (ie
two-track, mostly), evacuation of a sub-surface train is out the sides,
rather than the ends. That means it's not so important to keep the
longitudinal route clear.

That said, thinking on bikes does vary in different locations. In
Hamburg, for instance, bikes are permitted on all public transport
including buses (you just put it in the wheelchair place and keep hold
of it) though I think in a year I only once saw someone actually do so,
as it's a bit of a rescue service as actually riding the bike tends to
be faster than bus travel anyway.

Would be useful up Muswell Hill, though!

tom

--
You have to give up

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency. The only was to
evacuate a tube train in a tunnel would be through the M (driver's
cab out to the world) and J (passenger saloon to driver's cab)
doors. There's not a lot of room to start with and a bike or two
would make things really difficult.

But surely it's the people that would need to be evacuated, rather
than their possessions? Couldn't (shouldn't!) the bike remain on
the train, to be hopefully collected later, especially if it was a
situation requiring a speedy, emergency evacuation.

Yes. But getting hundreds of people along a train is easier if there
aren't bikes hanging around in the vestibules.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar
manner, I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many
Heathrow passengers would cause just as many problems if passengers
tried to bring them through the front of the train.

Or even if they left them where they were.

But they're not banned from the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as strong
for luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden by
practical needs.

You can move a suitcase into the area near the (sliding) doors in order to
keep the evacuation route clear, but I reckon a bike would still impede
access through the car-end doors if it was in the car-end vestibule.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar manner,
I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many Heathrow
passengers would cause just as many problems if passengers tried to
bring them through the front of the train. But they're not banned from
the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as strong
for luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden by
practical needs.

You can move a suitcase into the area near the (sliding) doors in order
to keep the evacuation route clear, but I reckon a bike would still
impede access through the car-end doors if it was in the car-end
vestibule.

If a bag's as big as a bike, and the occasionally are, then surely it's
just as bad?

tom

--
a draw was agreed once the pieces started melting

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar
manner, I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many
Heathrow passengers would cause just as many problems if
passengers tried to bring them through the front of the train. But
they're not banned from the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as
strong for luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden
by practical needs.

You can move a suitcase into the area near the (sliding) doors in
order to keep the evacuation route clear, but I reckon a bike would
still impede access through the car-end doors if it was in the
car-end vestibule.

If a bag's as big as a bike, and the occasionally are, then surely
it's just as bad?

Bags that are very long always in my experience can be stood on end.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar
manner, I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many
Heathrow passengers would cause just as many problems if
passengers tried to bring them through the front of the train. But
they're not banned from the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as
strong for luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden
by practical needs.

You can move a suitcase into the area near the (sliding) doors in
order to keep the evacuation route clear, but I reckon a bike would
still impede access through the car-end doors if it was in the
car-end vestibule.

If a bag's as big as a bike, and the occasionally are, then surely
it's just as bad?

Bags that are very long always in my experience can be stood on end.

True.

Have you seen the ceiling hooks for bikes on some modern trains? You can
hang a bike from them, so it takes up very little horizontal space. I've
only ever seen them provided in the bike space behind the driver's cab,
but i sometimes wonder if they'd be feasible in the vestibules too. The
problem would be the bike getting in the way of people getting on and off,
i think.

tom

--
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Iain wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in
:

The reason I've always been given is that they would impede
evacuation of the (tube) train in an emergency.

If a Piccadilly Line train needed to be evacuated in a similar
manner, I'm sure that the enormous suitcases carried by many
Heathrow passengers would cause just as many problems if
passengers tried to bring them through the front of the train.
But they're not banned from the tube!

You're quite right. The safety case is, i would think, just as
strong for luggage as for bikes, but in this case, it's overridden
by practical needs.

You can move a suitcase into the area near the (sliding) doors in
order to keep the evacuation route clear, but I reckon a bike would
still impede access through the car-end doors if it was in the
car-end vestibule.

If a bag's as big as a bike, and the occasionally are, then surely
it's just as bad?

Bags that are very long always in my experience can be stood on end.

True.

Have you seen the ceiling hooks for bikes on some modern trains? You
can hang a bike from them, so it takes up very little horizontal
space. I've only ever seen them provided in the bike space behind the
driver's cab, but i sometimes wonder if they'd be feasible in the
vestibules too. The problem would be the bike getting in the way of
people getting on and off, i think.

And people squeezing past the upright bike and getting grease from the chain
on their clothes. Let's face it, non-folding bikes on crowded trains are a
bad idea. Perhaps the answer lies in a readily-available fleet of bikes for
hire in central London, as Paris introduced last month with enormous
success.
See http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/...145868,00.html
and (in French only at present) http://www.velib.paris.fr

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:02:45 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

I thought the bike thing was to do with the need to be able to evacuate
out the ends. Does Merseyrail have tunnels where it's possible to go out
the sides instead?

The Loop tunnels are fairly tight, but I imagine it would be possible
to squeeze out between the train and the tunnel walls in most places -
though I doubt that would be the official evacuation route.

It's probably because the coaches are wider and as such a bike can be
easily moved out of the way. I note that they appear to be permitted on
all sections of the (larger) sub-surface lines.

It's my understanding that, due to the tunnels being much wider (ie
two-track, mostly), evacuation of a sub-surface train is out the sides,
rather than the ends. That means it's not so important to keep the
longitudinal route clear.

That said, thinking on bikes does vary in different locations. In
Hamburg, for instance, bikes are permitted on all public transport
including buses (you just put it in the wheelchair place and keep hold of
it) though I think in a year I only once saw someone actually do so, as
it's a bit of a rescue service as actually riding the bike tends to be
faster than bus travel anyway.

Would be useful up Muswell Hill, though!

tom

As an aside, TheBus - the bus service on the island of O'ahu has a two bike
bike rack on the front of their buses. Photo of one being used here...
http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/for...sa/thebus4.htm

--
Cheers, Steve.
Change jealous to sad to reply.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Steve Dulieu wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Neil Williams wrote:

That said, thinking on bikes does vary in different locations. In
Hamburg, for instance, bikes are permitted on all public transport
including buses (you just put it in the wheelchair place and keep hold
of it) though I think in a year I only once saw someone actually do
so, as it's a bit of a rescue service as actually riding the bike
tends to be faster than bus travel anyway.

Would be useful up Muswell Hill, though!

As an aside, TheBus - the bus service on the island of O'ahu has a two
bike bike rack on the front of their buses. Photo of one being used
here... http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/for...sa/thebus4.htm

That's quite good. I have a feeling the health & safety might not like it
here, but i'm sure something could be worked out. Would be so easy to do.

tom

--
the meaning is the illocutionary force of interrogativeness with no
propositional content -- Geoffrey K. Pullum