In article .com,
John B wrote:

Agreed that Finsbury Park, Oxford Circus, Euston and Stockwell are all
both good and clever.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Or Kings Cross. It's a particular bugbear of mine that there's really
no good way for someone arriving at Kings Cross or St Pancras to get
onto the Charing Cross Branch. Surely it wouldn't have been too hard
to arrange things so that the Victoria Line interchanged with the Bank
branch at KX, and the CX branch at Euston? Having cross platform
interchange at Euston with the Bank branch seems a whole lot less
useful than what could have been done.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:33:44 -0700, brixtonite wrote:

Try to avoid changing at:
Green Park

They really messed that up when they built the Victoria Line! Warren St
isn't much better.

In general, it seems to me that the Victoria line was a high point in
terms of easy connexions - cross-platform interchange wherever
possible, often created thanks to considerable ingenuity. The JLE is
clearly a step backwards in this respect (notably at Waterloo) and it
seems that from now onwards the priority will always be maximising
capacity rather than convenience.

AFAIK, the problem with the JLE was that new H&S requirements meant
that all platforms had to be completely straight and level. This all
but precluded cross-platform interchanges, as it would be prohibitive
to re-align existing lines so that such platforms could be built (and
there may not have been enough unused space underground to fit the
platforms in).

In article .com, John
B writes
In general, it seems to me that the Victoria line was a high point in
terms of easy connexions - cross-platform interchange wherever
possible, often created thanks to considerable ingenuity.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Green Park is due to simple geometry: get a map and remember that the
Piccadilly is running under Piccadilly with the station under the
intersection with Dover Street. Now try to construct a route with
reasonable curvature that gives you cross-platform interchange. It's
just not practical.

Warren Street was deliberate. In the early 1960s there was much more
traffic on the Charing Cross branch of the Northern than the Bank
branch. Therefore the interchanges with the Victoria were deliberately
arranged to encourage people on to the Bank branch and not to use the CX
one, thus evening up the flows somewhat. In hindsight that may seem the
wrong decision, but we have 40 years more data to work on.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Sarah Brown wrote:
In article .com,
John B wrote:
Agreed that Finsbury Park, Oxford Circus, Euston and Stockwell are all
both good and clever.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Or Kings Cross. It's a particular bugbear of mine that there's really
no good way for someone arriving at Kings Cross or St Pancras to get
onto the Charing Cross Branch. Surely it wouldn't have been too hard
to arrange things so that the Victoria Line interchanged with the Bank
branch at KX, and the CX branch at Euston? Having cross platform
interchange at Euston with the Bank branch seems a whole lot less
useful than what could have been done.

From KGX there are only two stations on the Charing X branch that
cannot be reached on either another direct line from KGX or by taking
the Victoria to Oxford Circus and using the cross-platform transfer to
the Bakerloo Line there. Of these two stations, Goodge Street is pretty
close to Warren Street, and Tottenham Court Road is pretty close to
Holborn or Leicester Square.
--
Michael Hoffman

Olof Lagerkvist wrote:

The problem with this today is that on the current tube map the Bakerloo
Line is drawn in a way that easily gives the impression that changing at
Charing Cross is easier than at Embankment or Waterloo, when actually
changing Bakerloo to/from anything else named Charing Cross includes a
much longer walk.

Also it would be useful to know those stations which although distinct are
actually quite close together. For example, Lancaster Gate on the Central Line
is quite close to Paddington so you might save time walking to / from there
rather than changing at Notting Hill Gate. Bayswater and Queensway are another
pair, as are Tower Hill and Fenchurch Street.

--
John Youles Norwich England UK

In article ,
Michael Hoffman wrote:

From KGX there are only two stations on the Charing X branch that
cannot be reached on either another direct line from KGX or by taking
the Victoria to Oxford Circus and using the cross-platform transfer to
the Bakerloo Line there. Of these two stations, Goodge Street is pretty
close to Warren Street, and Tottenham Court Road is pretty close to
Holborn or Leicester Square.

Much as I hate to do this...

Mornington Crescent!

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007, Sarah Brown wrote:

In article .com,
John B wrote:

Agreed that Finsbury Park, Oxford Circus, Euston and Stockwell are all
both good and clever.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Or Kings Cross.

Indeed.

It's a particular bugbear of mine that there's really no good way for
someone arriving at Kings Cross or St Pancras to get onto the Charing
Cross Branch. Surely it wouldn't have been too hard to arrange things so
that the Victoria Line interchanged with the Bank branch at KX, and the
CX branch at Euston?

If you look at the maps on John's site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/ltkxplan.gif
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/ltkxiso.gif

You can see that it wouldn't have been *that* hard to provide
crossplatform interchange with the Northern line at KX. With the tunnels
swapped round as at Euston, this would be a handy way to get to the City
from the northern reaches of the Victoria; you can make this change at
Euston, but it involves going a whole two more stops!

I think Vic to CX at Euston would also have been doable, using a similar
strategy as was used for Vic to Bank: recycle the existing southbound CX
platform for the northbound Vic, and build two entirely new platforms for
the southbound CX and Vic, underneath the New Ticket Hall. Here's a map of
what was actually done:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteuston.gif

Having cross platform interchange at Euston with the Bank branch seems a
whole lot less useful than what could have been done.

As Clive pointed out, one of the goals was to get people off the CX branch
and onto the Vic, so this probably made sense at the time. I still think
it was shortsighted.

tom

--
Nullius in verba

Sarah Brown wrote:
In article ,
Michael Hoffman wrote:
From KGX there are only two stations on the Charing X branch that
cannot be reached on either another direct line from KGX or by taking
the Victoria to Oxford Circus and using the cross-platform transfer to
the Bakerloo Line there. Of these two stations, Goodge Street is pretty
close to Warren Street, and Tottenham Court Road is pretty close to
Holborn or Leicester Square.

Much as I hate to do this...

Mornington Crescent!

I haven't seen such a skillful use of Johnson's Cross-Platform Gambit
since 1985.

But if there were a cross-platform interchange, I expect it would be
southbound and you'd still miss Mornington Crescent.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Sep 5, 7:19 am, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Sarah Brown wrote:
In article .com,
John B wrote:
Agreed that Finsbury Park, Oxford Circus, Euston and Stockwell are all
both good and clever.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Or Kings Cross. It's a particular bugbear of mine that there's really
no good way for someone arriving at Kings Cross or St Pancras to get
onto the Charing Cross Branch. Surely it wouldn't have been too hard
to arrange things so that the Victoria Line interchanged with the Bank
branch at KX, and the CX branch at Euston? Having cross platform
interchange at Euston with the Bank branch seems a whole lot less
useful than what could have been done.

From KGX there are only two stations on the Charing X branch that
cannot be reached on either another direct line from KGX or by taking
the Victoria to Oxford Circus and using the cross-platform transfer to
the Bakerloo Line there. Of these two stations, Goodge Street is pretty
close to Warren Street, and Tottenham Court Road is pretty close to
Holborn or Leicester Square.
--
Michael Hoffman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which is why it was rather annoying when the Charing X branch was
closed for engineering works and they chose to have the Northern
platforms at KXSP closed on the same weekend!

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

In article .com,
John B wrote:

Agreed that Finsbury Park, Oxford Circus, Euston and Stockwell are all
both good and clever.

But why didn't they go for x-platform at Green Park and Warren
Street...?

Or Kings Cross. It's a particular bugbear of mine that there's really
no good way for someone arriving at Kings Cross or St Pancras to get
onto the Charing Cross Branch. Surely it wouldn't have been too hard
to arrange things so that the Victoria Line interchanged with the Bank
branch at KX, and the CX branch at Euston? Having cross platform
interchange at Euston with the Bank branch seems a whole lot less
useful than what could have been done.

There were other considerations at Euston. The original City & South
London platform at Euston was an island in a wide tunnel. They were
dangerous and have all now gone except at one of the Clapham stations.

The Victoria line construction solved that, created a running connection
between the lines and a cross-platform connection in one go.

--
Colin Rosenstiel