On 26 Sep, 19:40, MaxB wrote:
This wonderful phrase is currently being applied to the Circle,
District and H&C non-service. Does anyone know why?

At a guess, something trivially minor has happened to one of the C-
stock trains that operates the Circle, H&C and relevant (Wimbleware)
bits of the District line, and so the drivers have decided to give
themselves an evening off by refusing to drive any C-stocks anywhere
until Saint Bob has proclaimed them Officially Safe.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Alleged defective dead man's handles (able to be reset in a "motoring"
position after operation instead of "off & release"). Oh and it's an
ASLEF initiative instead of RMT this time. No doubt LU will be happy
for Metronet SSL to carry the can....

On Sep 26, 10:14 pm, wrote:
Alleged defective dead man's handles (able to be reset in a "motoring"
position after operation instead of "off & release"). Oh and it's an
ASLEF initiative instead of RMT this time. No doubt LU will be happy
for Metronet SSL to carry the can....

From the BBC: "Safety fears halt Tube services"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7015423.stm

Just when I visit the place for the first time in several years...
what surprises will today bring?


Ian the Penguin

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:13:52 -0700, wrote:

Just when I visit the place for the first time in several years...
what surprises will today bring?

No service at all on the Wimbleware, Circle or Hammersmith and ****ty,
if the BBC is anything to go by.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 27 Sep, 06:31, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
Just when I visit the place for the first time in several years...
what surprises will today bring?

No service at all on the Wimbleware, Circle or Hammersmith and ****ty,
if the BBC is anything to go by.

We know A-stock can get between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East
(because that's how units get to and from the ELL) - so why can LUL
not divert [some of] the Met service from Aldgate to join up with the
District?

Single-car D-stock is also allowed on the H&C west of Edgware Road,
but that might be harder to arrange. And HSK - Edgware Road is pretty
much f***ed no matter what...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007, John B wrote:

On 27 Sep, 06:31, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

Just when I visit the place for the first time in several years...
what surprises will today bring?

No service at all on the Wimbleware, Circle or Hammersmith and ****ty,
if the BBC is anything to go by.

We know A-stock can get between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East
(because that's how units get to and from the ELL) - so why can LUL not
divert [some of] the Met service from Aldgate to join up with the
District?

The usual panoply of reasons:

- A stock drivers don't have route knowledge beyond Aldgate Junction (do
they?)

- Where would you reverse? A stock can get to Aldgate East, but there are
apparently infringements at Whitechapel, so they'd have to reverse using
the trailing crossover which apparently lies just east of Aldgate East; i
have no idea if it's signalled to make that easy, and even if it is,
that's a reverse on a running line.

- It might be enough additional time that you'd need more trains and
drivers, which might not be available.

- Er ...

- That's it.

tom

--
The future will accost us with boob-slapping ferocity. -- H. G. Wells

On 27 Sep, 13:17, Tom Anderson wrote:
We know A-stock can get between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East
(because that's how units get to and from the ELL) - so why can LUL not
divert [some of] the Met service from Aldgate to join up with the
District?

The usual panoply of reasons:

- A stock drivers don't have route knowledge beyond Aldgate Junction (do
they?)

Presumably some of them do, since there's pretty regular rotation of
ELL trains (and indeed, ELL trains are maintained at Neasden).

- Where would you reverse? A stock can get to Aldgate East, but there are
apparently infringements at Whitechapel,

According to CULG, they're allowed on the District between Aldgate
East Junction and Upminster. But at this point you would run into
driver knowledge problems...

so they'd have to reverse using
the trailing crossover which apparently lies just east of Aldgate East; i
have no idea if it's signalled to make that easy, and even if it is,
that's a reverse on a running line.

- It might be enough additional time that you'd need more trains and
drivers, which might not be available.

- Er ...

- That's it.

Yup, that sounds like it.

In another forum, someone has suggested that double-manning would
solve the problem - it certainly would in a 'actual safety' sense, but
since there's no problem in an 'actual safety' sense I'm not sure how
relevant that is...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Sep 27, 1:17 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
- Where would you reverse? A stock can get to Aldgate East, but there are
apparently infringements at Whitechapel, so they'd have to reverse using

What sort of infringements? Are we talking scaring some pigeons in a
nest as the train passed very close by or are we talking taking a
large gouge out of a tunnel wall?

B2003

On 26 Sep, 21:14, wrote:
Alleged defective dead man's handles (able to be reset in a "motoring"
position after operation instead of "off & release"). Oh and it's an
ASLEF initiative instead of RMT this time. No doubt LU will be happy
for Metronet SSL to carry the can....

....although RMT are also involved according to the BBC article, and St
Bob is the rentaquote speaker.

If, as it sounds, the defect in question doesn't prevent the DMH from
operating (i.e. your asleep/dead driver will still let go of it and
the train will still stop), how does this have even the pretence of a
safety issue?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 27 Sep, 09:18, John B wrote:
If, as it sounds, the defect in question doesn't prevent the DMH from
operating (i.e. your asleep/dead driver will still let go of it and
the train will still stop), how does this have even the pretence of a
safety issue?

Basically, there is no safety issue. These trains have been in service
for nearly 40 years, so statistically the chance of an incident
occurring is pretty minimal. If there were concerns, implement double
manning until assurances could be made. Certainly any minute risk is
easily outweighed by the risks associated with overcrowding.

This issue is all about train operators asserting their authority, and
IMO they should be ashamed of themselves for inconveniencing and
potentially endangering passengers for no good reason.