"Richard J." wrote:
Colin McKenzie wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
What about Hail & Ride buses?

Will probably disappear altogether, despite their popularity, for
disability discrimination reasons.

In what way are they discriminatory? One such route near me is very popular
with elderly residents with limited walking ability because they don't have
to walk so far.
--
This shows the foolishness of the disabled=wheelchair mind-set.
Make a bus with an entrance wide enough for a wheelchair, and lo! those
with dodgy knees and hips can no longer grab a rail and pull themselves
into the bus.

Make a wheelchair space between the doors and lo! hardly any seats on
the low-floor part of a double-decker for those who need them.

Prohibit 'hail and ride' because even with low-floor you can only get
wheelchairs onto buses if the bus is alongside a specially raised kerb
and lo! you have to walk along the bus route to a bus stop.

I suppose blind people have trouble with 'hail and ride' too.

But couldn't you have 'hail and ride' AND bus stops on the same road, so
that people could choose between a shorter walk and a proper bus stop
with seat, ticket machine etc?

Colin McKenzie

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message ...

On this basis, surely the most pressing need for Oyster was never for
long-term season tickets at all, but for pre-pay customers?

I'm sure pre-pay customers are the main target - but, with a system so
complex, I think it makes good sense first to test it with a
relatively small group of customers in the way they are doing. By
gradually rolling-out ticket availability any major problems will,
hopefully, be dealt with without inconveniencing millions of people.
There would be nothing worse for customer-confidence in Oyster than
the whole ticketing system keeling over the day after the full-scale
launch (I'm not saying this won't happen though! - this is LUL after
all - but I wish them every success).

Actually, how will they administer this? Would you be able to decide you
want a one day travelcard before you set out, then arrange it online, then
get on at your local busstop, swipe the oyster, and not be charged for the
single bus journey?

I hope so - but there has been no announcemant to this effect.

umpston wrote:

Actually, how will they administer this? Would you be able to decide you
want a one day travelcard before you set out, then arrange it online, then
get on at your local busstop, swipe the oyster, and not be charged for the
single bus journey?


I hope so - but there has been no announcemant to this effect.

I doubt they'll do this, but probably the best way of doing pre-pay
would be similar to the congestion charge.

Basically, you register (and get your card etc.) and you go on buses,
tubes, trains etc. throughout the day. Then, you've got until 10pm that
day to call them and check you had enough credit on your account (or top
it up if you need more). If you don't pay by 10, the outstanding amount
is doubled. Don't pay by midnight then you've got a penalty fare
etc.etc. and your card is blocked until you payup. Actually, to make it
more in-line with the public transport system, it'll probably be best if
the times are something like don't pay by the time the last tube has
departed then it's doubled and don't pay before the first tube leaves
the next morning, then you've got a penalty fare.

How many different ways do they have for paying the CC? Txt, phonecall,
internet, phone kiosks, shops - I'm sure they could offer these
different channels for paying for travel tickets as well. So, you could
even go out for a drink and while your mate is getting the round in, you
could quickly top-up your card with a txt message to make sure you can
get the last tube home that night.

This will also improve passenger flows across the network at ticket
barriers etc. as you wont have the annoying persons-card-not-accepted
and having to fight your way back away from the gates during rushhour
when you've got a big crowd right behind you trying to get through the
barrier...

I'm sure there's plenty of reasons not to do this (for example, how
would you stop people from just re-registering with a different name or
details and never pay-up?), but it makes sense to me.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Stevie ), in message
who said:
umpston wrote:

Actually, how will they administer this? Would you be able to
decide you want a one day travelcard before you set out, then
arrange it online, then get on at your local busstop, swipe the
oyster, and not be charged for the single bus journey?


I hope so - but there has been no announcemant to this effect.

I doubt they'll do this, but probably the best way of doing pre-pay
would be similar to the congestion charge.

Basically, you register (and get your card etc.) and you go on buses,
tubes, trains etc. throughout the day. Then, you've got until 10pm
that day to call them and check you had enough credit on your account
(or top
it up if you need more). If you don't pay by 10, the outstanding
amount
is doubled. Don't pay by midnight then you've got a penalty fare
etc.etc. and your card is blocked until you payup. Actually, to make
it more in-line with the public transport system, it'll probably be
best if the times are something like don't pay by the time the last
tube has departed then it's doubled and don't pay before the first
tube leaves
the next morning, then you've got a penalty fare.


All well and good, but would it charge you the best value fair - in most
cases where you make multiple journeys a travelcard - or would it just keep
adding up the ****ing 70ps and £2.30s and ****e all day, and then give you a
stupidly inflated bill in the evening?

BTN

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Mark Blewett" wrote in message
...

I'd gladly except the oystercard (as someone who
travels in the evening from zone 6 a few times a
week)...there are advantages... not having to wait
15+ minutes to get a ticket at the booking office, and
ticket machines which are either bust, not accepting
some coins... et al.

I was amazed that daily tickets on Oyster would be introduced last (if at
all) - haven't LU realised that the ticket tout problem will disappear
overnight when the ODTCs go on Oyster?

But you haven't asked yourself who cause the most problems; long
queues of impatient people waiting to buy/renew tickets or a few
ticket touts?

Kat

Stevie wrote in message m...

probably the best way of doing pre-pay
would be similar to the congestion charge.

Basically, you register (and get your card etc.) and you go on buses,
tubes, trains etc. throughout the day. Then, you've got until 10pm that
day to call them and check you had enough credit on your account (or top
it up if you need more). If you don't pay by 10, the outstanding amount
is doubled. Don't pay by midnight then you've got a penalty fare
etc.etc. and your card is blocked until you payup. Actually, to make it
more in-line with the public transport system, it'll probably be best if
the times are something like don't pay by the time the last tube has
departed then it's doubled and don't pay before the first tube leaves
the next morning, then you've got a penalty fare.

This seems over-complicated for the customer and would, I think,
increase the problems of non-payment rather than reducing them (just
look at the number of outstanding c-charge fines or appeals). What I
would like to see is Oyster credit accounts - where the system would
track your journeys and automatically bill you for your travel by
direct-debit (including appropriate travelcard-type discounts). Then
you'd never need to worry about buying a ticket.

How many different ways do they have for paying the CC? Txt, phonecall,
internet, phone kiosks, shops - I'm sure they could offer these
different channels for paying for travel tickets as well.

Or for re-charging your Oyster.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:35:23 +0100, "Ben Nunn"
wrote:


On this basis, surely the most pressing need for Oyster was never for
long-term season tickets at all, but for pre-pay customers?

Actually, how will they administer this? Would you be able to decide you
want a one day travelcard before you set out, then arrange it online, then
get on at your local busstop, swipe the oyster, and not be charged for the
single bus journey?

BTN

Capping. It will (probably) work like this:

a) Make one bus journey. 70p off Oyster.
b) Second bus journey 70p off Oyster.
c) Third bus journey 70p off Oyster (£2.10 deducted)
d) Fourth bus journey 40p off Oyster (£2.50 - deducted - price
of One Day Bus Pass from Jan 04)
e) Fifth bus journey 0p off Oyster
... and so on.

The 'cap' rises to the price of a One Day Travelcard if you use the
Underground.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

In message , John Rowland
writes
Good to see that you view your customers as more of a problem than
criminals. You're obviously fitting into LU very well.

Daring to suggest something (obviously true) like that on this newsgroup
is going to lead you to being labelled a troll or just insulted. So I
wouldn't even bother wasting your breath. Or um..... fingers.
--
CJG

CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Paul
Corfield writes
fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to
bash them.

Here you go again - trying to justify assaults on LUL staff. Have
you tried an anger management course?

No it didn't work. I beat up the course instructor.
Im very sorry. Obviously I thought you would all think when I said
bash them. I meant in criticise them.

Not obvious at all, considering that half the time you actually are
justifying physical violence against them.

Just to make myself aboustely clear for those people who
don't understand.
I was suggesting that London Underground shouldn't be surprised
when people criticise them after charging high fares for a crap
service.

Ah, so you'll be leaving the justification of physical assaults against
tube staff for other posts then?

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Kat" wrote in message
om...
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

I was amazed that daily tickets on Oyster would be
introduced last (if at all) - haven't LU realised that the
ticket tout problem will disappear
overnight when the ODTCs go on Oyster?

But you haven't asked yourself who cause the most
problems; long queues of impatient people waiting
to buy/renew tickets or a few ticket touts?

Good to see that you view your customers as more of a problem than
criminals. You're obviously fitting into LU very well.

Large numbers of people in small ticket halls is an obvious problem
because overcrowding causes all sorts of accidents.
Large numbers of people can suddenly emerge from buses and rush down
onto crowded staircases and I am always reminded of what happened at
Bethnal Green.

Of course we can always phone NCC and allow them to pay at destination
(as many will demand) but that only passes the problem on the the Zone
1 stations and the passengers will still have to queue to get out.

Kat