Dr. Barry Worthington ("Dr. Barry Worthington" )
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Then.....disaster strikes.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the
space?

but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays
about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too
much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

Sounds more like a triumph of the politico/PR man over the curator...

At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-

On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway]
"Mizter T" wrote
Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students
are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content.
Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a
big way.

Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair,
the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas
Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format
with horses and period people.

The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the
construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can
climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit
in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric
locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some
interesting displays on 'Metroland'.

The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny
tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit
in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is
another example of tube stock to explore.

Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the
previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of
either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus,
and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a
Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest?
Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to
the public.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of
the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe
in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is
given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of
transport in London, most of which take up far too much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.
--
Thoss

On 26 Nov, 13:23, thoss wrote:
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-





On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway]
"Mizter T" wrote
Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students
are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content.
Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a
big way.

Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair,
the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas
Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format
with horses and period people.

The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the
construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can
climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit
in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric
locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some
interesting displays on 'Metroland'.

The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny
tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit
in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is
another example of tube stock to explore.

Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the
previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of
either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus,
and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a
Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest?
Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to
the public.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of
the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe
in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is
given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of
transport in London, most of which take up far too much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.


Dumbed down, along with school examinations, university "degrees", the
broadcast media, newspapers and magazines, all to suit the reducing
average intelligence of the population.

"thoss" wrote in message
...
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.

Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some
extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works"
displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television. If
museums are to be made more appealing to children, there need to be other
museums for people who want serious scientific exhibits which provide
*information* and *explanation* as opposed just to fun and entertainment.

Sometimes "kids' toys" can be very informative, though. There was a
temporary exhibition at the Science Museum a few years ago about
aerodynamics and what makes a plane fly. They had a miniature wind tunnel
with foam wing sections which you could put your arm through to experience
the forces of drag and lift, and the concept of stalling if you increase the
angle of attack too far. Similarly they had an excellent demonstration of
the complicated swash plate linkage on a helicopter which changes the pitch
of each blade as the rotor turns so as it give more lift at one side,
rolling and pitching the helicopter. What as shame that this exhibition was
only temporary.

Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:

The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles.

Yebbut there needs to be a balance. Sometimes there are so many exhibits
in transport museums that one can't get a good look at them. I certainly
came away from the transport museum in Zurich with that feeling, and I
think it's true of the exhibits that are clustered around the turntable
in the NRM Great Hall as well. (I'm not suggesting the problem is easy
to solve, BTW.)
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683711.html
(Class 120 unit at Manchester Victoria, Jun 1985)

Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles.

Really? The biggest problem with the old layout (for me at least) was
that it had too many very similar buses/trams, and it just got dull
very quickly. The current selection seems about right given the size
of the space. I just wish the non-vehicle exhibits were more
imaginative.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
Why? The average public, including the children, would much
prefer to see more vehicles.

Really? The biggest problem with the old layout (for me at least) was
that it had too many very similar buses/trams, and it just got dull
very quickly. The current selection seems about right given the size
of the space. I just wish the non-vehicle exhibits were more
imaginative.

It is still extraordinary that a representative of by far the largest
family of buses, the 6000-odd RTs, is not there. The last one was retired
in 1979, so plenty of people visiting the museum would remember them.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message
, Mr
Thant writes
Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles.

Really? The biggest problem with the old layout (for me at least) was
that it had too many very similar buses/trams, and it just got dull
very quickly. The current selection seems about right given the size
of the space. I just wish the non-vehicle exhibits were more
imaginative.

Right, as the person that started this thread (!), I've now been to the
Museum to see for myself. (I actually went last Wednesday but this is
the first chance I've had to write down my impressions.)

There was a queue to get in, although that vanished quite quickly when
it transpired that it was a group (c15 young-ish US visitors).

My first reactions weren't good. The "World Cities" "gallery" is a
complete waste of space. Although there might (*might*) be some merit
in comparing public transport in different cities, this is a triumph of
form over purpose. Flickering videos and walls decorated with parts of
metro maps do not explain transport in different cities.

Signposting towards the lift (and therefore the natural way round0
seemed temporary or "added on" since the place had opened. How can the
visitor route not have been properly marked from the start!?

Then there was the lift. We had to wait for quite a while and I began
to wonder what this would be like when *really* busy. When the lift
did come, the aforementioned group shuffled in.......only to have the
"car overloaded" sign come up. Some of them shuffled out.......and
still it said "car overloaded". Eventually, the lift was barely half
full and the doors shut. When the lift returned, the other half of the
group shuffled in and as some of the rest of us followed.......the "car
overloaded" sign came up again. I gave up and went off in search of
the stairs.

Arriving at the top, I was more impressed. Clearly a lot of thought
has gone into explaining the London of the early 19th century which
spawned Shillibeer and his Omnibus. Top Marks.

Heading down, I was also pleased by the Metropolitan display and the way
in which the need for underground railways was felt so early in London.
I was even more pleased to see the concept of "MetroLand" covered so
well. This is an incredibly important part of London's past and one in
which the new Museum is a marked improvement.

And so down to ground level. The tubes, from the Padded Cell to the
mid twentieth century stuff were good and the use of technology to
project the posters on to the ground was - I thought - eye catching and
informative at the same time. There also seems more space in the
display cases for things.

Then on to road transport. Ah.

I can't disguise the disappointment I felt here. The reduction in road
vehicles on display in just - I think - jaw-dropping. No RT? Only
one tram (and the West Ham example rather than an LCC/LT one?!).

It was good to see a DMS (after all, this too was an important part of
the history of the bus in London) but so much of the ground floor seemed
given over, well, nothing. That huge map display in the centre didn't
inform me of very much and - even if it did - it wasn't worth
sacrificing vehicles for.

Despite what people may or may not think, one of the principle reasons
people go to Museums is to see *things*, not *displays*. Displays can
be good (as many here are) but to "improve" the place by reducing the
exhibits is to me a victory for consultants over customers. Young or
old, domestic or foreign, transport enthusiast or layman, people go to
Covent Garden to see old buses trams and trains and I feel there should
be more of them. As, you may recall, there once were. Remember the
opening in 1980 anyone?

The shop, of course, has been open for some time. One big improvement
though is the new guide book which has appeared. This is brilliantly
written, well illustrated and very well priced. I can't recommend it
highly enough.

And on that positive note I'll end. A lot about the new museum is good
and some of the problems (like the signage and lift) can be sorted out.
Others, like the waste of space and lack of vehicles can't be and it
made me sad.

6/10.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:48:16 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

Has anyone been to the London Transport Museum since it re-opened?

I'm having an unusually long period of Not Being In London and won't be
able to visit until Wednesday. I wonder if anyone has any positive (or
otherwise!) Things to say about what we have to see for two years of
closure?

Not yet. I haven't even managed to get to the shop this week. I've not
had any feedback one way or the other as to how good or bad the museum
is.

I am tasked with organizing a visit for members of another usenet group
who wish to visit it. That won't be until the New Year.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Is it true there are now only 4 buses left inside? More room for taxis
and sedan chairs perhaps rather than an RT-family type which was
familiar for 50-odd years? (But is no doubt deemed to look the "same"
as an RM.)

Ominously the Evening Standard praised the LTM as having lost its
"anorak" atmosphere so I for one fear the worst!

I hope it's not all hands-on/activity kid's stuff, "world cities" and
"inclusion" etc....