DaveP wrote

2) If I move during the year and I want to extend or restrict the
zonal validity of my ticket, what are the costs involved?

They refund the difference between what you paid for the annual and
what it
would have cost had you bought monthlies and weeklies, less an admin
fee.

The annual is the same as 10.4 monthlies so at 10 months no refund is
due
and from about month 8 on the refund might not amount to enough to
buy much
at all.

I got caught by that this year having gone into hospital with a month
off [...]

I think you are answering a different question.

On NR anyway (see the National Rail Conditions of Carriage) there are
two different schemes. The "calculate the cost of the validity so far
as if you had used monthlies and weeklies" is the "If you decide not to
use or to stop using a Season Ticket" bit.

There is also "Changing one Season Ticket for another" which seems to
match what the OP said and which gives you a much better refund.

== calculated pro rata to the number of days of validity remaining on
the date the ticket is handed in. However, the validity of the new
ticket must start on the day after the original ticket is handed in and
must be for a period that is at least as long as that of the original
ticket when it was issued. You will not have to pay an administrative
charge.==

So if you change workplace and/or move house that's the scheme to
consider.

Indeed, the geeks could calculate that in some circumstances when you
no longer require a season for daily travel, swapping for a 2-zone
annual travel card or the traditional annual gold card for one stop
from Ryde Pier Head would give better value than a refund since Gold
Card discounts etc are better than those of Network Card and a 2-zone
card would also see occasional and bus usage.

--
Mike D

On 27 Nov, 17:09, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
DaveP wrote

2) If I move during the year and I want to extend or restrict the
zonal validity of my ticket, what are the costs involved?

(snip)

Thanks to all for your helpful responses. To clarify I was just
wondering about the implications of moving from zone 4 to 2 (or
possibly just outside 6! with work generally being in zone 1), while I
have some validity left on my ticket. Of course if there were only a
couple of months left, I might just keep the ticket and make sure I
pop home to my folks often enough to justify it..

I think you are answering a different question.

On NR anyway (see the National Rail Conditions of Carriage) there are

Yes, you're right - I misread the question, apologies to the OP, as you can
probably imagine I'm a little miffed to lose a month of travel for no fault
of my own!

Cheers,
Dave

gw2486 wrote:
I'm shortly going to renew my annual travelcard for the first time and
wondered if anyone could enlighten me in a few areas, some of which
I'm sure should be published information but I'm finding it
increasingly hard to find anything on the TfL website!

1) What percentage of my £1328 ticket goes to the retailer? Will my
local newsagent be incredibly appreciative if I go to him rather than
the local tube station?

That's generally regarded as being commercially sensitive information.
Though in the case of a Rail only season it's enshrined in the Ticketing
and Settlement Agreement, over 1000 pages dictating Retail issues from
when Ticket Offices should be open, to what you can sell, to Retail
Standards, etc.

And the rest of the season ticket price is "drip fed" to the relevant
companies throughout the course of the year, rather than in one lump sum.

2) If I move during the year and I want to extend or restrict the
zonal validity of my ticket, what are the costs involved?

Providing there is at least one month's validity remaining on your
ticket, you can submit a "changeover" request.

Providing the new ticket expires on the same date as the original
ticket, this involves calculating a "base rate" for each ticket (this is
based on the price of each ticket as if the new ticket were being issued
at the same time, and the same validity, as the old, with a month being
defined as 30 days and a year as 365 days, then rounded to the nearest
penny. So if, for example, you had an Annual that originally cost £3650
and the annual for the new journey *at the time you purchased your
annual* would have been £2920, the base rates would be £10 and £8,
respectively).

Those "Base Rates" are then multiplied by the number of days remaining
on the existing ticket (less any "Lost Days" that have been applied to
it) to calculate the amount of credit you get for the original ticket,
and how much the new ticket costs, and hence how much you need to pay,
or how much refund you're entitled to.

So, continuing with our original example, if you had 100 days remaining
on the original ticket, with no lost days, you'd get £1000 credit, and
the new ticket would cost £800, leaving you with a £200 refund.

This begins to get "fun" if you get round to having further changeovers,
or where passengers charter discounts apply, doubly so if you go to a
station other than the original issuing office.

If, on the other hand, you wanted the "changeover" to be for a longer or
shorter period than that left on the original ticket, then you would
need to apply for a refund (which would be calculated by deducting the
cost of a season ticket for the period used from the price you've paid,
and then applying an admin fee, if appropriate) and then buy the new
ticket at the current rate.

3) I know I'm entitled to various Gold Card benefits - is there any
detailed list of these available online? And for the one I'm most
likely to use - Network Railcard discount for an extension ticket
beyond my zones - what exactly do I ask for, Gold Card or Network
Railcard discount? And what evidence might I need to show - is it the
paper record card?

It varies depending on where you buy your ticket from, and sometimes
whether you use your ticket on that TOC (e.g. South West Trains' free
weekend tickets). But to get the Gold Card discount (and Gold Card 1st
Supplement) you'll need to show the Record Card (for Oyster) or the
actual ticket.

HTH,

Barry

Barry Salter wrote

Providing the new ticket expires on the same date as the original
ticket, this involves calculating a "base rate" for each ticket (this
[...]

If, on the other hand, you wanted the "changeover" to be for a longer
or
shorter period than that left on the original ticket, then you would
need to apply for a refund (which would be calculated by deducting
[...]

Err, no. Longer is fine and a later than original ticket expiry may be
required.. As I quoted from the NR National Conditions of Carriage :-

However, the validity of the new ticket must start on the day after the
original ticket is handed in and must be for a period that is at least
as long as that of the original ticket when it was issued. You will not
have to pay an administrative charge. ==


--
Mike D

This only applies to a refund for an unused period on a ticket, not on
a change in zones. Changes in zones are done pro-rata for the
remaining period of the annual ticket and as I said about are
available until only 1 month is less.

You are correct if you are completely stopping use of the season, then
there is no refund after 10 1/2 months, but this was not the question
that the OP asked.

So if one wishes to cancel an annual ticket the best option would be to
exchange it for the cheapest possible ticket before applying for a
refund. Interesting.

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Barry Salter wrote

Providing the new ticket expires on the same date as the original
ticket, this involves calculating a "base rate" for each ticket (this
[...]

If, on the other hand, you wanted the "changeover" to be for a longer
or
shorter period than that left on the original ticket, then you would
need to apply for a refund (which would be calculated by deducting
[...]

Err, no. Longer is fine and a later than original ticket expiry may be
required.. As I quoted from the NR National Conditions of Carriage :-

However, the validity of the new ticket must start on the day after the
original ticket is handed in and must be for a period that is at least
as long as that of the original ticket when it was issued. You will not
have to pay an administrative charge. ==


That's a case of the NCoC oversimplifying the procedure laid down in the
Retail Manual Part 1, on the grounds that (especially if the original
ticket is an annual) you can't *HAVE* a change-over that would have a
longer validity than the original ticket, as you would be unable to
calculate the *correct* "base rate" for it on which to base your
calculations, let alone the correct amount to charge for the new ticket.

Going back to the example I posted:

Let's say that the original ticket is an Annual, starting on 3rd January
2007 and expiring on 2nd January 2008, and costing £3650.

To calculate the base rate, we divide £3650 by 365 to get a base rate of
£10 per day.

We then look up the 7 Day rate for the new ticket as if it had been
bought to start on the 3rd of January 2007, and get £73, which we then
multiply by 40 to get the Annual rate of £2920.

We then divide *that* by 365 to get the "Base Rate" of £8 per day.

Obviously, you can't get a season ticket lasting longer than 12 months,
so you'd only be able to get a new ticket expiring, at the latest, on
2nd January 2008.

Turning to a shorter period example. Let's say you bought a 4 month
season ticket starting on 3rd January 2007 at a cost of £1536 (£100 a week).

The "base rate" on that would be £1536 / ( 4 * 30 ) days = £1536 / 120
days = £12.80 a day.

Let's also say that the new season you want to buy would have cost
£1228.80 (£80 a week) had you bought it for 4 months, starting on the
3rd of January.

That gives a base rate of £1228.80 / 120 days = £10.24 a day.

Let's say you now want to extend that new season through to 2nd of
January 2008, making it up to an Annual.

Had you bought an Annual originally, that would have cost you £3200.

But hang on a minute, the base rate for a £3200 Annual is £3200 / 365
days, which is £8.77 / day (rounded to the nearest penny), £1.47 / day
LESS than the *ORIGINAL* base rate. So how much should you charge the
passenger for the "new" ticket, and at what base rate?

Net result: If the passenger wants their change-over to expire on any
date other than that on which the original ticket expires, it's a case
of refunding the original ticket and issuing a new one.

Cheers,

Barry