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#1
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Zonal Boundaries
A Transport for London spokesman said: "Our zonal boundaries are set
up to provide a simple and fair framework for setting distance based ticket prices. Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within the central part of the system and not at the extremes. It also makes no sense to pay more to travel one stop in one direction than the other just because it takes you over a zone boundry. I don't buy the simplicity argument either, you turn up, ask for a ticket and get told how much it is. You can accept or decline, just like in other walks of life! I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based fares as it can with zonal, the calculation of distances between each station would only need to be done the once. I've had seasons for around 10 years from Potters Bar and am typical commuter, one route in and out, with occasional weekend shopping and social stuff taking me around Z1-2 maybe a few times a month. I managed to save £400 a year by buying a season ticket for zones 1-4 and then a point to point from there to Potters Bar. It serves all my travel needs and I'm not paying for zones 5-6 in bits of London I never go to. Even then the saving would more than pay for any occasional travel. I imagine this loophole will vanish once seasons go zonal, but hopefully by then the rail companies will have a pre-pay system going. Cheers, Dave |
#2
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Zonal Boundaries
DERWENT Zonal Boundaries
30 Dec 2007 18:39:25 GMT, DaveP A Transport for London spokesman said: "Our zonal boundaries are set up to provide a simple and fair framework for setting distance based ticket prices. Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within the central part of the system and not at the extremes. Not true. I have a 456 travelcard and I use it all over these zones. It also makes no sense to pay more to travel one stop in one direction than the other just because it takes you over a zone boundry. Agreed - there use to be short hop fares for this. Best soplution is to have some ofrm of overlap though. I don't buy the simplicity argument either, you turn up, ask for a ticket and get told how much it is. You can accept or decline, just like in other walks of life! With a zonal ticket you don't need to worry if things change slightly - just use the nearest appropriate station. I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based fares as it can with zonal, the calculation of distances between each station would only need to be done the once. Ok then what is the point to point distance for Dartford to London Bridge. I've had seasons for around 10 years from Potters Bar and am typical commuter, one route in and out, with occasional weekend shopping and social stuff taking me around Z1-2 maybe a few times a month. I managed to save £400 a year by buying a season ticket for zones 1-4 and then a point to point from there to Potters Bar. It serves all my travel needs and I'm not paying for zones 5-6 in bits of London I never go to. Even then the saving would more than pay for any occasional travel. Well done, but why 1-4, and not 1-2? I imagine this loophole will vanish once seasons go zonal, but hopefully by then the rail companies will have a pre-pay system going. So far point to point seasons have survived. PRAR -- http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/ As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists. NB Anti-spam measures in force - If you must email me use the Reply to address and not |
#3
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Zonal Boundaries
Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within
the central part of the system and not at the extremes. Not true. I have a 456 travelcard and I use it all over these zones. I knew someone would say that ... I did say "most people" You can have a system that's fair on you, now can the rest of us have one that's fair on us too? I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based Ok then what is the point to point distance for Dartford to London The rail companies have distance figures and the fares could be worked out from this data (like they were at one time) - you get the fare online or at the station, pretty much like anything else you'd buy. managed to save £400 a year by buying a season ticket for zones 1-4 Well done, but why 1-4, and not 1-2? Because for some odd reason it was cheaper to do it 1-4 than 1-2. D |
#4
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Zonal Boundaries
"DaveP" wrote in message 54... Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within the central part of the system and not at the extremes. Not true. I have a 456 travelcard and I use it all over these zones. I knew someone would say that ... I did say "most people" You can have a system that's fair on you, now can the rest of us have one that's fair on us too? I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based Ok then what is the point to point distance for Dartford to London The rail companies have distance figures and the fares could be worked out from this data (like they were at one time) - you get the fare online or at the station, pretty much like anything else you'd buy. So which of the 5 routes from Dartford to London would you use to calculate the fare? Peter Smyth |
#5
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Zonal Boundaries
Peter Smyth wrote:
So which of the 5 routes from Dartford to London would you use to calculate the fare? Surely that depends on the route the passenger wishes to take? Table 200 of the NRT gives the following mileages for London to Dartford: London Charing Cross - Blackheath - Charlton - Dartford is given as 18.75 miles. London Cannon Street - Greenwich - Woolwich Arsenal - Dartford is given as 16.25 miles. London Charing Cross - Blackheath - Bexleyheath - Dartford is given as 17 miles. London Charing Cross - Lewisham - Hither Green - Sidcup - Dartford is given as 17.25 miles. London Victoria - Peckham Rye - Lewisham - Bexleyheath - Dartford is given as 18.5 miles. This gives an average of 17.55 miles. Cheers, Barry |
#6
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Zonal Boundaries
The rail companies have distance figures and the fares could be
So which of the 5 routes from Dartford to London would you use to calculate the fare? The average would be the best way. Whatever it is, the variation is going to be quite small, compared to the large variation the zones have introduced. Weekends, Cockfosters to Heathrow is £2 for a 49km journey. Kings X is also £2 but you only get 16km. Should KX not be 65p? Or should Heathrow be £6? Regards, Dave |
#7
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Zonal Boundaries
On Dec 31 2007, 11:22*pm, DaveP wrote:
Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within the central part of the system and not at the extremes. Not true. I have a 456 travelcard and I use it all over these zones. I knew someone would say that ... I did say "most people" You can have a system that's fair on you, now can the rest of us have one that's fair on us too? I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based Ok then what is the point to point distance for Dartford to London The rail companies have distance figures and the fares could be worked out from this data (like they were at one time) - you get the fare online or at the station, pretty much like anything else you'd buy. managed to save £400 a year by buying a season ticket for zones 1-4 Well done, but why 1-4, and not 1-2? Because for some odd reason it was cheaper to do it 1-4 than 1-2. D No doubt it varies, but in the past when combining a one-day travelcard and a day return from boundary to country location*, I seem to remember that it worked out cheapest to maximise the travelcard part. It seems odd that adding zones to the travelcard wouldn't cost as much as including a London section on the day return, but at least sometimes it apparently wouldn't. *The travelcard being necessary anyway to get to the start of the journey. I think it was something like south London to Southend via Limehouse. |
#8
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Zonal Boundaries
On Jan 1, 1:19*am, MIG wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 11:22*pm, DaveP wrote: Zones are unfair because most people only use unlimited travel within the central part of the system and not at the extremes. Not true. I have a 456 travelcard and I use it all over these zones. I knew someone would say that ... I did say "most people" You can have a system that's fair on you, now can the rest of us have one that's fair on us too? I'm sure Oyster could as easily cope with point to point mileage based Ok then what is the point to point distance for Dartford to London The rail companies have distance figures and the fares could be worked out from this data (like they were at one time) - you get the fare online or at the station, pretty much like anything else you'd buy. managed to save £400 a year by buying a season ticket for zones 1-4 Well done, but why 1-4, and not 1-2? Because for some odd reason it was cheaper to do it 1-4 than 1-2. D No doubt it varies, but in the past when combining a one-day travelcard and a day return from boundary to country location*, I seem to remember that it worked out cheapest to maximise the travelcard part. It seems odd that adding zones to the travelcard wouldn't cost as much as including a London section on the day return, but at least sometimes it apparently wouldn't. *The travelcard being necessary anyway to get to the start of the journey. *I think it was something like south London to Southend via Limehouse.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Just to follow this up, now the journey planner is working again, zone 1 - 2 one-day travelcard is £5.30, and cheap day return Limehouse to Southend is £11, total £16.30. Zone 1 - 6 one-day travelcard is £7, and cheap day return Upminster to Southend is £9.40, total £16.40. So it looks like, if it ever did, my calculation doesn't work with the current fares. Not much difference though. 10p more for free travel in zones 3 - 6. |
#9
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Zonal Boundaries
Just to follow this up, now the journey planner is working again, zone
1 - 2 one-day travelcard is £5.30, and cheap day return Limehouse to Southend is £11, total £16.30. Zone 1 - 6 one-day travelcard is £7, and cheap day return Upminster to Southend is £9.40, total £16.40. So it looks like, if it ever did, my calculation doesn't work with the current fares. Not much difference though. 10p more for free travel in zones 3 - 6. I expect one year when working this out FCC will rise point to point fares to make the fares the same as buying the normal ticket. I expect this will happen when seasons go zonal in 2010, though I'm not sure what they will do when you're outside the zones to start with? Hopefully by then though they will have rolled out some sort of smart card scheme which will probably be best value all round... (he says) Cheers, Dave |
#10
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Zonal Boundaries
Well done, but why 1-4, and not 1-2?
Because for some odd reason it was cheaper to do it 1-4 than 1-2. I seem to remember that it worked out cheapest to maximise the travelcard part. I used to work out which combination was cheapest and it doesn't work out for all stations and/or rail companies, and often the changeover point was different each year. This year cheapest is to Z4 and saves £332 from Potters Bar. If you're in Welham Green it saves £472. All combinations are cheaper than the off the shelf ticket (although there is the caveat that the train must stop where the ticket changes over - less of a problem from Welham Green where the train is all stops anyhow). I'd love to be able to just walk into the booking office and buy the most suitable ticket for my needs without having to go through this nonsense. Why can't they just sell a ticket valid "POTTERS BAR & R1234"? D |
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