The Rail Minister Tom Harris has announced that the National Rail (NR)
network in London is to adopt a zonal fares system. This will apply to
all rail journeys that are wholly within the London Travelcard zones
(that is zones 1 - 6).

This change, which will come into effect from January 2007, has been in
the pipeline for a long time. It paves the way for Oyster Pay-as-you-go
(PAYG) to be implemented across the whole National Rail network in
London (currently Oyster PAYG is only accepted on a limited number of
NR routes).

There will be single, return and cheap day return (CDR) tickets
available. Many have suggested that a zonal ticketing system will do
away with CDRs and will be pleased to hear they are to stay.

A full table of the fares is included in the DfT press release.

Full DfT press release via the Government News Network:
http://www.gnn.gov.uk/environment/fu...leaseID=235656
or via shorturl http://tinyurl.com/y8sm6v

Also...
BBC News "Train network to adopt Tube zones"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6065874.stm

Reuters - "London's rail fare structure to be simplified"
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...-C2-Business-5
or via shorturl http://tinyurl.com/y8wazr

Mizter T wrote:

There will be single, return and cheap day return (CDR) tickets
available. Many have suggested that a zonal ticketing system will do
away with CDRs and will be pleased to hear they are to stay.

1-6 CDR including Tube gbp9.60. Why set such nonsensical fares? An
ODTC would be substantially cheaper.

Neil

this seems to mean big fare rises for some:
e.g. Surbiton to Waterloo cheap day return: now £4.20,
zone 1-6 rail only CDR: £5.70

Neil Williams wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

There will be single, return and cheap day return (CDR) tickets
available. Many have suggested that a zonal ticketing system will do
away with CDRs and will be pleased to hear they are to stay.

1-6 CDR including Tube gbp9.60. Why set such nonsensical fares? An
ODTC would be substantially cheaper.

Neil

It's not nonsense - you've just misread it.

The price you've quoted is for an standard day return, *not* a cheap
day return. This would only be issued for travel before 0930 on
weekdays. A zones 1-6 CDR Train/Tube fare is £5.70.

These prices are cheaper than the current Z1-6 peak and off-peak Day
Travelcard fares. I presume (but don't have any information to hand)
that the Day Travelcard prices will increase next year.

Mizter T wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

There will be single, return and cheap day return (CDR) tickets
available. Many have suggested that a zonal ticketing system will do
away with CDRs and will be pleased to hear they are to stay.
1-6 CDR including Tube gbp9.60. Why set such nonsensical fares? An
ODTC would be substantially cheaper.

Neil

It's not nonsense - you've just misread it.

The price you've quoted is for an standard day return, *not* a cheap
day return. This would only be issued for travel before 0930 on
weekdays. A zones 1-6 CDR Train/Tube fare is £5.70.

No, the price he quoted is for a CDR - it's in the "cheap day returns"
column. The price for a peak zone 1-6 train-tube return, in the column
immediately to the left of that one, would be £13.20.

--

Stephen

It's never too late, as a wise person once said. I think it was Kylie.

Mizter T wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

There will be single, return and cheap day return (CDR) tickets
available. Many have suggested that a zonal ticketing system will do
away with CDRs and will be pleased to hear they are to stay.

1-6 CDR including Tube gbp9.60. Why set such nonsensical fares? An
ODTC would be substantially cheaper.

Neil

It's not nonsense - you've just misread it.

The price you've quoted is for an standard day return, *not* a cheap
day return. This would only be issued for travel before 0930 on
weekdays. A zones 1-6 CDR Train/Tube fare is £5.70.

These prices are cheaper than the current Z1-6 peak and off-peak Day
Travelcard fares. I presume (but don't have any information to hand)
that the Day Travelcard prices will increase next year.


I fully retract my comments above and most humbly apologise to you Neil
- the one who's misreading things is me, and I eat my words above
completely.

As you rightly point out, a Z1-6 Train/Tube CDR will apparently cost
£9.60 - which seems utterly bizarre. An off-peak Day Travelcard will
obviously be cheaper. I can't see the logic of creating such a fare if
it's never going to be issued.

Mizter T wrote:

The price you've quoted is for an standard day return, *not* a cheap
day return. This would only be issued for travel before 0930 on
weekdays. A zones 1-6 CDR Train/Tube fare is £5.70.

No, it isn't. A zones 1-6 CDR train *only* fare is 5.70 - they're in
separate tables. I have included the train-tube-train fares below, and
every one of the CDRs are nonsensical because the appropriate ODTC is
cheaper by quite a margin. Peak return 1-6 is gbp11.20 in that table,
which must also be approaching the Peak Day Travelcard fare.

No of Zones Peak single Peak Return Cheap Day Rtn
Adult Child Adult Child Adult Child
1 £4.00 £2.00 £7.60 £3.80 £6.70
£2.00
12 £4.10 £2.00 £7.70 £3.80 £7.00
£2.00
123 £4.70 £2.30 £8.60 £4.30 £7.60
£2.00
1234 £5.10 £2.50 £9.30 £4.60 £8.00
£2.00
12345 £5.80 £2.90 £11.20 £5.60 £8.70
£2.00
123456 £6.80 £3.40 £13.20 £6.60 £9.70
£2.00
2,3,4,5 or 6 £3.00 £1.50 £5.60 £2.80 £5.40
£2.00
23,34,45,56 £3.40 £1.70 £6.30 £3.10 £5.80
£2.00
234,345,456 £3.80 £1.90 £7.00 £3.50 £6.20
£2.00
2345, 3456 £4.20 £2.10 £7.70 £3.80 £6.60
£2.00
23456 £4.60 £2.30 £8.60 £4.30 £7.00
£2.00

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

The price you've quoted is for an standard day return, *not* a cheap
day return. This would only be issued for travel before 0930 on
weekdays. A zones 1-6 CDR Train/Tube fare is £5.70.

No, it isn't. A zones 1-6 CDR train *only* fare is 5.70 - they're in
separate tables. I have included the train-tube-train fares below, and
every one of the CDRs are nonsensical because the appropriate ODTC is
cheaper by quite a margin. Peak return 1-6 is gbp11.20 in that table,
which must also be approaching the Peak Day Travelcard fare.


Please see my abject apology elsewhere on this thread!

I completely agree, it appears on first glance (well, in my case second
glance - once I've worked out which table I should be looking at!) to
be totally nonsensical.

Neil Williams wrote:

(snip)

[...] A zones 1-6 CDR train *only* fare is 5.70 - they're in
separate tables. I have included the train-tube-train fares below, and
every one of the CDRs are nonsensical because the appropriate ODTC is
cheaper by quite a margin. Peak return 1-6 is gbp11.20 in that table,
which must also be approaching the Peak Day Travelcard fare.


I take a small crumb of comfort in the fact that it's not just me who
misreads things!

A Train/Tube peak return isn't £11.20 as you state above but instead
costs even more - it's £13.20 !!!

I wonder if the Train/Tube peak return prices quoted aren't in fact the
new Peak Day Travelcard prices for 2007?

I am very glad to hear they are keeping the single/return/CDR fairs for
overground journeys. It may seem silly to have two sets of fares but
why should I pay underground fares for overground journeys? I do not
get the same level of service (eg my trains start later in the morning,
finish earlier at night and are far less regular) so it seems
unreasonable for me to pay the same as someone who lives by a tube
station and gets all those benefits.

Happy!