http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...nts/article.do

quote
Call for review of rail zones after complaints
Joe Murphy, Political Editor
28.12.07
A review of London's train fare zones is being called for after a
deluge of protests by passengers.
There has been a rise in complaints from commuters who believe they
are paying too much following the Government's decision to introduce
zonal pricing for rail journeys.
Zonal pricing for single and day return fares was introduced at the
start of this year, increasing the price of some tickets by up to 35
per cent.
Campaigners fear the cost of an annual or monthly pass will rise by
the same rate when zonal pricing for season tickets is introduced in
2010.
The current zones were drawn up in 1983 but their shape dates back
much further.
Zone 1, the inner zone, is based on the Circle line, which was built
in the 19th century, and zone 5 follows the outer edge of the old
Greater London Council boundary.
Falling on the wrong side of a zone boundary could increase the price
of a season ticket by up to £400 a year but in some places the zones
are much closer together than others.
Among the anomalies is Surbiton station, used by five million
passengers a year, which is in zone 6 despite being only 12 miles from
Waterloo. At least 28 stations in the cheaper zone 5 are actually
farther from central London.
Edgware passengers have fought to be moved from zone 5 into zone 4
because they are so close to London.
Epsom, Hinchley Wood, Claygate, Esher, Ashford, Potters Bar, Cuffley,
Theobalds Grove, Cheshunt and Waltham Cross stations are all in areas
that the consumer group London Travelwatch believes should be in zone
6.
In the new year, Hampstead Heath and Willesden Junction will be
redesignated from zone 3 to zone 2 following complaints.
LSE transport economist Tim Leunig, who studied the zoning, believes a
review is overdue. "The rings were squeezed to fit into the same shape
as the old GLC boundary," he said.
"They are close together in some places, which means fares rise
quicker, but elsewhere they are far apart and passengers can travel
longer for the same price."
A review is being promised by Liberal Democrat mayoral candidate Brian
Paddick, who said one of his first acts if elected would be to redraw
zone boundaries to make fares match distance travelled more closely.
He said: "The entire rail ticketing system needs reviewing. Many
commuters are paying over the odds."
Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat MP, for Kingston and Surbiton, said
passengers in his constituency faced a £400 hike in the cost of a
season ticket. "The zones are arbitrary and outdated and my
constituents are losing out very badly as a result," he said. "A
thorough review of the zonal map is long overdue and a very sensible
idea."
A Transport for London spokesman said: "Our zonal boundaries are set
up to provide a simple and fair framework for setting distancebased
ticket prices.
"We will always consider reasonable proposals from residents and the
zoning of stations has been adjusted where appropriate."
Unquote


Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

On Dec 30, 5:54 am, Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-details/Call+...

quote
Call for review of rail zones after complaints
Joe Murphy, Political Editor
28.12.07
A review of London's train fare zones is being called for after a
deluge of protests by passengers.
There has been a rise in complaints from commuters who believe they
are paying too much following the Government's decision to introduce
zonal pricing for rail journeys.
Zonal pricing for single and day return fares was introduced at the
start of this year, increasing the price of some tickets by up to 35
per cent.
Campaigners fear the cost of an annual or monthly pass will rise by
the same rate when zonal pricing for season tickets is introduced in
2010.
The current zones were drawn up in 1983 but their shape dates back
much further.
Zone 1, the inner zone, is based on the Circle line, which was built
in the 19th century, and zone 5 follows the outer edge of the old
Greater London Council boundary.
Falling on the wrong side of a zone boundary could increase the price
of a season ticket by up to £400 a year but in some places the zones
are much closer together than others.
Among the anomalies is Surbiton station, used by five million
passengers a year, which is in zone 6 despite being only 12 miles from
Waterloo. At least 28 stations in the cheaper zone 5 are actually
farther from central London.
Edgware passengers have fought to be moved from zone 5 into zone 4
because they are so close to London.
Epsom, Hinchley Wood, Claygate, Esher, Ashford, Potters Bar, Cuffley,
Theobalds Grove, Cheshunt and Waltham Cross stations are all in areas
that the consumer group London Travelwatch believes should be in zone
6.
In the new year, Hampstead Heath and Willesden Junction will be
redesignated from zone 3 to zone 2 following complaints.
LSE transport economist Tim Leunig, who studied the zoning, believes a
review is overdue. "The rings were squeezed to fit into the same shape
as the old GLC boundary," he said.
"They are close together in some places, which means fares rise
quicker, but elsewhere they are far apart and passengers can travel
longer for the same price."
A review is being promised by Liberal Democrat mayoral candidate Brian
Paddick, who said one of his first acts if elected would be to redraw
zone boundaries to make fares match distance travelled more closely.
He said: "The entire rail ticketing system needs reviewing. Many
commuters are paying over the odds."
Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat MP, for Kingston and Surbiton, said
passengers in his constituency faced a £400 hike in the cost of a
season ticket. "The zones are arbitrary and outdated and my
constituents are losing out very badly as a result," he said. "A
thorough review of the zonal map is long overdue and a very sensible
idea."
A Transport for London spokesman said: "Our zonal boundaries are set
up to provide a simple and fair framework for setting distancebased
ticket prices.
"We will always consider reasonable proposals from residents and the
zoning of stations has been adjusted where appropriate."
Unquote

Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

Dartford should be in zone 6 for practical reasons - three different
train routes finish there

On 30 Dec 2007, 10:30, wrote:
Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

Dartford should be in zone 6 for practical reasons - three different
train routes finish there- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Maybe now A/B/C/D have been renumbered & used elsewhere than the Met
line, there are plans to extend thezonal system outwards to include
interchanges like Dartford. Won't get into zone 6 though - it would
make Dartford a lot cheaper to travel from....but surely 7, 8 or 9
would besuitable?

On 30 Dec 2007, 12:33, Jon wrote:
- the outer boundary of Z6 follows the Greater London boundary

I thought Z5 was the old GLC boundary?

Chris wrote:
On 30 Dec 2007, 10:30, wrote:
Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?
Dartford should be in zone 6 for practical reasons - three
different train routes finish there- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Maybe now A/B/C/D have been renumbered & used elsewhere than the Met
line, there are plans to extend thezonal system outwards to include
interchanges like Dartford. Won't get into zone 6 though - it would
make Dartford a lot cheaper to travel from....but surely 7, 8 or 9
would besuitable?

Just to muddy the waters a little, "Freedom Pass" holders *CAN* travel
out to Dartford on their pass, so it'd make sense if the Zone 6 boundary
were extended accordingly, though I suspect that would involve Kent
County Council making a contribution to the Travelcard "pot".

Cheers,

Barry

On Jan 1, 12:04 pm, Chris wrote:


On 30 Dec 2007, 12:33, Jon wrote:

- the outer boundary of Z6 follows the Greater London boundary

I thought Z5 was the old GLC boundary?


No. A number of areas - Uxbridge, Romford, Purley etc - are in zone 6
but also in Greater London. But there are a few zone 6 (and even zones
4 & 5) stops outside Greater London, particularly on the Central line.

Jonn

wrote:
But there are a few zone 6 (and even zones
4 & 5) stops outside Greater London, particularly on the Central line.

This seems quite common south of London (Caterham, Hampton Court,
etc), but apparently nowhere else. The GL and zone 6 boundaries
generally correspond exactly. The only other one I know of is Moor
Park.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Jan 1, 7:58 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
wrote:
But there are a few zone 6 (and even zones
4 & 5) stops outside Greater London, particularly on the Central line.

This seems quite common south of London (Caterham, Hampton Court,
etc), but apparently nowhere else. The GL and zone 6 boundaries
generally correspond exactly. The only other one I know of is Moor
Park.


Most of the east of the Central line beyond Woodford or Hainult -
that's all zones 4-6, yet technically in Essex.

Jonn

In article
,
(Mwmbwls) wrote:

[snip]
Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

Another problem is that zones were designed for just 3* of today's style
zones but the number was increased over the years to push fares up.

* Fares Fare in 1982 had 4 zones for the whole of Greater London but two
of them comprised the current Zone 1 which was divided East-West.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Dec 30, 12:17*pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,

(Mwmbwls) wrote:

[snip]

Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

Another problem is that zones were designed for just 3* of today's style
zones but the number was increased over the years to push fares up.

* Fares Fare in 1982 had 4 zones for the whole of Greater London but two
of them comprised the current Zone 1 which was divided East-West.


Maybe part of the answer is to have overlapping zones so that, as at
boundary stations, it's possible to make a one zone journey in either
direction to two places, a journey between which might cover two
zones?

That would be a completely new system though.

The real answer is for all public transport to be free (like bendy
buses).

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On Dec 30, 12:17*pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,

(Mwmbwls) wrote:

[snip]

Any more suggestions as to where the zonal boundaries should be?

Another problem is that zones were designed for just 3* of today's
style zones but the number was increased over the years to push fares

up.

* Fares Fare in 1982 had 4 zones for the whole of Greater London but
two of them comprised the current Zone 1 which was divided East-West.

Maybe part of the answer is to have overlapping zones so that, as at
boundary stations, it's possible to make a one zone journey in either
direction to two places, a journey between which might cover two zones?

That would be a completely new system though.

Are you overlooking the cases where zone boundary stations are in two
zones? There will be a small increase in their numbers from 2 January.

The real answer is for all public transport to be free (like bendy
buses).

There are other issues there.

--
Colin Rosenstiel