Hi people. This is a bit long, so please bear with me. I am trying to
track down a number of past & present ex-LT bus garages. They are :-

1) The original Kingston garage in Richmond Road. Where on Richmond
Road was it?

2) The ex-Metroline garage somewhere on Victoria Road, between Gypsy
Corner and Old Oak Lane (Not to be confused with the PRESENT depot on
Atlas Road just off the northern end of Victoria Road)

3) The depot at Hornchurch. Strictly speaking, this was NOT in
Hornchurch, but on Hornchurch Road, west of Hornchurch proper. I
suspect that it was on the north side of Hornchurch Road a couple of
hundred yards east of Roneo Corner. Could anyone confirm/correct my
guess?

4) Where are the Mitcham Belle Darts garaged? There is no way they can
get into the yard at 223 Streatham Road. I have found a Mitcham Belle
depot, just south of Beddington Lane Tram stop, but it looked
deserted.

5) Where was Riverside Garage? I thought it was somewhere on the
one-way system surrounding the current bus station, but a photograph I
saw said it was on Talgarth Road.

6) Where was Hammersmith depot? I am talking about the former
trolleybus & BEA coach garage. Was it in Great Church Lane?

7) Exactly where on Shrubland Road was Dalston Depot? I have walked
the full length of it, and there is no evidence that there was a depot
here. For some reason the street name “Ivydene Avenue”
comes to mind, but that name does not appear in my A-to-Z.

8) Sovereign Buses had a depot somewhere in Borehamwood, in the days
when it was called BTS (BT survives as a depot code for vehicles
allocated to Edgware). Where was this depot in Borehamwood?

9) I know that the former Seven Kings depot was on the south side of
the main road between Seven Kings and Goodmayes railway stations. Am I
right in assuming that it was opposite Blythswood Road?

10) There is a "new" operator around Debden called “DOCKLANDS
MINIBUSES” with a “legal-lettering” address of St.
Marys Road (?) in Upminster. The address turns out to be the office of
an accountant specialising in tax-avoidance (or something similar)!
Where are the vehicles garaged?

11) The depot that effectively replaced Loughton appears to be Debden,
with codes DB and DD. Where is it? Someone told me that it is in
Langston Road, but when I went there, I could only find a lorry park
where there were some buses parked. Surely this cannot be it?

12) The original Uxbridge depot (before the present one next to the
tube station) was in Denham Road. Exactly where?

13) Am I correct in assuming that the site of the Sidcup Garage (at
Foots Cray) is now occupied by a LIDL store (who have also built
stores on the sites of Hackney(H), Hanwell(HL) and Rye Lane Peckham
(RL)

Thanks in advance

Nick Hewitt wrote:
Hi people. This is a bit long, so please bear with me. I am
trying to track down a number of past & present ex-LT bus
garages. They are :-

5) Where was Riverside Garage? I thought it was somewhere
on the one-way system surrounding the current bus station,
but a photograph I saw said it was on Talgarth Road.

It was, There was an entrance in Talgarth Road and the exit round the
corner. Here are some photos:-

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg01.jpg

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg02.jpg

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg03.jpg

In message , Piccadilly.Pilot
writes

5) Where was Riverside Garage? I thought it was somewhere
on the one-way system surrounding the current bus station,
but a photograph I saw said it was on Talgarth Road.

It was, There was an entrance in Talgarth Road

Not exactly. The entrance was in Great Church Street, below the
Hammersmith Flyover. I'm not sure whether the latter can still be called
Talgarth Road once it merges into the flyover, but the bus garage was
undoubtedly situated at ground level, just to the east of the exit from
the current Hammersmith Bus Station.

and the exit round the corner. Here are some photos:-

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg01.jpg

That photo shows the exit in Queen Caroline Street. The building is
still there (just), now converted to Smollensky's restaurant. When
coming off the A4 from the west it is the one brick building in a sea of
glass and concrete that is almost directly in front of you as you enter
the Hammersmith one-way system - although what you see is the back of
the original building (read on).

It has an extraordinary history - worth recounting for those that don't
know it. The garage was originally constructed in 1736 as Bradmore
House, a Georgian manor house built in the grounds of the huge
16th-century Butterwick House. The latter was demolished in 1836 and the
District Railway eventually built its Hammersmith terminus in the
grounds. Bradmore House itself survived and still looked pristine in
photos of the early 20th century.

Then, in an act of breathtaking vandalism, the London General Omnibus
Company purchased the Georgian building in 1913, removed its innards in
order to create a garage and knocked holes large enough to take
double-deckers in the back (the west side) of each of its wings. These
can be seen in photo 2 (below) that you found.

Later most of the front (east side) was removed in order to provide
access through the former front garden of the house to the new, larger
garage just round the corner (photo 3). It was all renamed Riverside
Garage in 1950.

The "restoration" of Bradmore House as part of the Broadway Centre in
the 1990s was a nice gesture - but as much because it relieves the vast
and undistinguished bulk of the rest, rather than as a real restoration
as such. A little of the rear (west) facade was saved - click the link
at http://www.lambsbricks.com/nav/info_projects_03.htm - but most of it
is totally new construction in the style of the original.

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg02.jpg

That's a clearer picture of the same.

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hmbus/HMbsgrg03.jpg

That's the entrance in Great Church Street - the Hammersmith Flyover
extension of Talgarth Road is seen passing overhead, so its very close.

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
news
That photo shows the exit in Queen Caroline Street. The building is
still there (just), now converted to Smollensky's restaurant. When
coming off the A4 from the west it is the one brick building in a sea of
glass and concrete that is almost directly in front of you as you enter
the Hammersmith one-way system - although what you see is the back of
the original building (read on).

It has an extraordinary history - worth recounting for those that don't
know it. The garage was originally constructed in 1736 as Bradmore
House, a Georgian manor house built in the grounds of the huge
16th-century Butterwick House. The latter was demolished in 1836 and the
District Railway eventually built its Hammersmith terminus in the
grounds. Bradmore House itself survived and still looked pristine in
photos of the early 20th century.

Then, in an act of breathtaking vandalism, the London General Omnibus
Company purchased the Georgian building in 1913, removed its innards in
order to create a garage and knocked holes large enough to take
double-deckers in the back (the west side) of each of its wings. These
can be seen in photo 2 (below) that you found.

Later most of the front (east side) was removed in order to provide
access through the former front garden of the house to the new, larger
garage just round the corner (photo 3). It was all renamed Riverside
Garage in 1950.

The "restoration" of Bradmore House as part of the Broadway Centre in
the 1990s was a nice gesture - but as much because it relieves the vast
and undistinguished bulk of the rest, rather than as a real restoration
as such. A little of the rear (west) facade was saved - click the link
at http://www.lambsbricks.com/nav/info_projects_03.htm - but most of it
is totally new construction in the style of the original.

Fascinating.

I remember it as a Post Office and had no idea of its transport connections.

Some recent (taken today) pictures of what's left of Bradmore House are he
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house1.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house2.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house3.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house4.jpg


Robin

In message , Robin Cox
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
news

It has an extraordinary history - worth recounting for those that don't
know it. The garage was originally constructed in 1736 as Bradmore
House, a Georgian manor house built in the grounds of the huge
16th-century Butterwick House.

(snip)

Fascinating.

I remember it as a Post Office and had no idea of its transport connections.

And nor did I when I lived in Hammersmith (just off Brook Green) nearly
30 years ago - in those days the inner part of the one-way system was a
mixture of hopeless dereliction combined with distant glimpses of the
1940s (remember the tar-stained Clarendon?). I still think the Broadway
Centre is a monument to much that is worst in local-authority planning -
50 years of indolence followed by a rush to create a maximum-revenue
cliff-face of mediocre buildings encompassing a bus station that was too
cramped from the outset.

The fact that there is decent architecture only yards away (The Ark, St
Paul's Church, Hammersmith Bridge, the RIBA-plaudited Surgery and much
more) only serves to highlight by contrast the vacuity of the final plan
for the Broadway Centre.

Some recent (taken today) pictures of what's left of Bradmore House are he
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house1.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house2.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house3.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house4.jpg

I don't know how you managed to get such traffic-free photos on the
Hammersmith one-way - house2.jpg in particular seems to capture
something of the original!

--
Paul Terry

"Robin Cox" wrote in message
...
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
news
That photo shows the exit in Queen Caroline Street. The building is
still there (just), now converted to Smollensky's restaurant. When
coming off the A4 from the west it is the one brick building in a sea of
glass and concrete that is almost directly in front of you as you enter
the Hammersmith one-way system - although what you see is the back of
the original building (read on).

It has an extraordinary history - worth recounting for those that don't
know it. The garage was originally constructed in 1736 as Bradmore
House, a Georgian manor house built in the grounds of the huge
16th-century Butterwick House. The latter was demolished in 1836 and the
District Railway eventually built its Hammersmith terminus in the
grounds. Bradmore House itself survived and still looked pristine in
photos of the early 20th century.

Then, in an act of breathtaking vandalism, the London General Omnibus
Company purchased the Georgian building in 1913, removed its innards in
order to create a garage and knocked holes large enough to take
double-deckers in the back (the west side) of each of its wings. These
can be seen in photo 2 (below) that you found.

Later most of the front (east side) was removed in order to provide
access through the former front garden of the house to the new, larger
garage just round the corner (photo 3). It was all renamed Riverside
Garage in 1950.

The "restoration" of Bradmore House as part of the Broadway Centre in
the 1990s was a nice gesture - but as much because it relieves the vast
and undistinguished bulk of the rest, rather than as a real restoration
as such. A little of the rear (west) facade was saved - click the link
at http://www.lambsbricks.com/nav/info_projects_03.htm - but most of it
is totally new construction in the style of the original.

Fascinating.

I remember it as a Post Office and had no idea of its transport
connections.

Some recent (taken today) pictures of what's left of Bradmore House are
he
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house1.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house2.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house3.jpg
http://www.robincox.pwp.blueyonder.c...ore_house4.jpg


Robin

The old Hammersmith Post Office was a bit further along from Bradmore
House - see pic 1 in Piccadilly Pilot's earlier posting - its the tall
building to the left.

Robert Griffith

In message , Nick
Hewitt writes

5) Where was Riverside Garage? I thought it was somewhere on the
one-way system surrounding the current bus station, but a photograph I
saw said it was on Talgarth Road.

It was in Great Church Street which is indeed on the present one-way
system. It was just to the east of the exit from the new Hammersmith Bus
Station (see other post).

6) Where was Hammersmith depot? I am talking about the former
trolleybus & BEA coach garage. Was it in Great Church Lane?

No, it was certainly not the same garage as Riverside - I think the bus
garage was renamed as "Riverside" in order to avoid confusion between
the two.

I'm almost certain that the trolleybus depot was in Shepherd's Bush
Road, next to the old Osram Lamp Factory (now Tesco) facing Brook Green,
and backing onto more LT land (the Hammersmith & City line depot).
There's a picture at http://www.trolleybus.net/resume.htm (scroll down
to the bottom left).

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Nick
Hewitt writes

5) Where was Riverside Garage? I thought it was somewhere on the
one-way system surrounding the current bus station, but a photograph I
saw said it was on Talgarth Road.

It was in Great Church Street which is indeed on the present one-way
system. It was just to the east of the exit from the new Hammersmith Bus
Station (see other post).

6) Where was Hammersmith depot? I am talking about the former
trolleybus & BEA coach garage. Was it in Great Church Lane?

No, it was certainly not the same garage as Riverside - I think the bus
garage was renamed as "Riverside" in order to avoid confusion between
the two.

I'm almost certain that the trolleybus depot was in Shepherd's Bush
Road, next to the old Osram Lamp Factory (now Tesco) facing Brook Green,
and backing onto more LT land (the Hammersmith & City line depot).
There's a picture at http://www.trolleybus.net/resume.htm (scroll down
to the bottom left).

Afraid it wasn't! The old trolleybus depot and adjacent buildings were
located on the east side of the District/Picc. tube station. They were all
demolished when the current Hammersmith one-way system was developed. The
road now called Butterwick covers much of the land where these buildings
stood.

Rob Griffith

In message , rob
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

I'm almost certain that the trolleybus depot was in Shepherd's Bush
Road, next to the old Osram Lamp Factory (now Tesco) facing Brook Green,
and backing onto more LT land (the Hammersmith & City line depot).
There's a picture at http://www.trolleybus.net/resume.htm (scroll down
to the bottom left).

Afraid it wasn't! The old trolleybus depot and adjacent buildings were
located on the east side of the District/Picc. tube station.

Ah, thanks. Presumably the front was facing north onto the Broadway
itself? Looking again at the photo I mentioned I can see that the
traffic island would be one of those that used to run down the middle of
the Broadway.

It occurs to me that what is now the Hammersmith one-way system has had
a trolleybus depot on its north side, bus garages on the south and west
sides, the old Butterwick bus station on the east side and now the new
bus station in the middle. Quite a record!

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , rob
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

I'm almost certain that the trolleybus depot was in Shepherd's Bush
Road, next to the old Osram Lamp Factory (now Tesco) facing Brook
Green,
and backing onto more LT land (the Hammersmith & City line depot).
There's a picture at http://www.trolleybus.net/resume.htm (scroll down
to the bottom left).

Afraid it wasn't! The old trolleybus depot and adjacent buildings were
located on the east side of the District/Picc. tube station.

Ah, thanks. Presumably the front was facing north onto the Broadway
itself? Looking again at the photo I mentioned I can see that the
traffic island would be one of those that used to run down the middle of
the Broadway.


It occurs to me that what is now the Hammersmith one-way system has had
a trolleybus depot on its north side, bus garages on the south and west
sides, the old Butterwick bus station on the east side and now the new
bus station in the middle. Quite a record!


I think you may be getting confused over roads here. The current Hammersmith
one-way system includes Hammersmith Broadway (leading to Hammersmith Rd) at
its northern side; Butter at its eastern side; Tailgate Road/Flyover at its
southern side and Queen Caroline St at its western side.
The old trolley bus depot (later BEA Coach base) was located where Butter
now is, I.e. on the eastern side. Thus it backed on to the District/Pick.
railway lines. After it was demolished, the road was widened and the old
Butter bus station was built. It too went as part of the redevelopment of
the whole area and the replacement bus station built above the new shopping
centre.

Rob Griffith