On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:21:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

But Oyster PAYG has been valid on Silverlink County/London Midland
trains between Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone for ages, indeed (I
think) since Oyster PAYG began back in 2004.

You absolutely sure of that? Even if it was, though, it was not
publicised as such.

Anyway, my perhaps rather blunt opinion on this is that I certainly
don't begrudge the people of Harrow from wanting to get from central
London in 13 minutes non-stop instead of 40 minutes (from Oxford
Circus) all stations on the Bakerloo line.

Nor do I, but perhaps differential pricing could have kept locals on
the local services as much as possible. It works from Milton Keynes
Central off-peak.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jan 23, 10:46*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:21:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T

wrote:
But Oyster PAYG has been valid on Silverlink County/London Midland
trains between Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone for ages, indeed (I
think) since Oyster PAYG began back in 2004.

You absolutely sure of that? *Even if it was, though, it was not
publicised as such.


The Euston to Harrow route has always been on the list of National
Rail services where PAYG was valid. There was no distinct between fast
and slow trains.

See http://web.archive.org/web/200406062...om/buy_1_4.php

This is the earliest oyster PAYG National Rail list that I can find in
the web archive.

On 23 Jan, 22:46, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:21:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T

wrote:
But Oyster PAYG has been valid on Silverlink County/London Midland
trains between Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone for ages, indeed (I
think) since Oyster PAYG began back in 2004.

You absolutely sure of that? Even if it was, though, it was not
publicised as such.


Yes. I cannot be a 100% certain that Oyster PAYG was valid from H&W on
the fast trains when the system went live on 05/01/04, because I
wasn't paying attention to such things back then, however I'd be
absolutely amazed to hear that it wasn't. It was certainly valid on
the Bakerloo and DC line trains from H&W.

Also, take a look at this post from a thread in November 2005, where I
specifically mention having just made a H&W to Euston journey using
Oyster PrePay (i.e. PAYG):
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....90cb54391444cf

OK, so I don't specifically mention that I travelled on the fast
Silverlink County train, but I did - I remember it distinctly because
I cautiously asked at two ticket offices (either side of the station)
if it was legit, got the OK (twice) then spent some time searching for
an Oyster reader - they were only located on the bridge serving the DC
line platforms. At the end of my journey the train came into either
platform 16, 17 or 18 at Euston, and I then had to search to find
another Oyster reader there (there was only one back then, next to a
pillar).

Which I guess does somewhat prove your point that it wasn't at all
well publicised! Back then the station was managed by Silverlink, who
I guess would not have wanted to go out of their way to tell people
about this, whereas now it is managed by London Underground (as a
result of it being a London Overground station) - and LU will be a lot
more forward in providing such information. Also, given the extension
of Oyster PAYG up to Watford, I imagine there would have been some
quite clear posters provided detailing PAYG validity.

Plus H&W is now a gated station, which may have prompted passengers to
think about/ ask about / notice posters about the validity of Oyster
PAYG on fast trains.

All in all it looks like I've just gone some way to constructing your
argument for you. So perhaps you have a point. However I'm still
somewhat sceptical of this idea that a significant number of
passengers have transferred from the Bakerloo - I'd think that if
going to Euston was more convenient for them, that's the way they'd
already be going, Oyster or no Oyster.


Anyway, my perhaps rather blunt opinion on this is that I certainly
don't begrudge the people of Harrow from wanting to get from central
London in 13 minutes non-stop instead of 40 minutes (from Oxford
Circus) all stations on the Bakerloo line.

Nor do I, but perhaps differential pricing could have kept locals on
the local services as much as possible. It works from Milton Keynes
Central off-peak.



I know you don't mean it like that, but 'keeping locals on local
services as much as possible' does seem to carry an undertone that
locals should know their place (or perhaps it's just a Royston
Vaseyesque undertone of "local shops for local people"... er, I'm
getting sidetracked here...).

I tend towards the opinion that fast trains from central London can
and should do a bit of stopping in outer London ("why should Watford
get a fast service and Harrow shouldn't" etc).

Regarding differential pricing, apart from the difficulty of actually
enforcing it (see the saga of London Midland not accepting Oyster PAYG
from Watford, before giving in after a week), I'm far from convinced
that it's such a great idea for shorter journeys such as this. Plus,
is it even really a problem - from what I hear, these peak trains are
pretty civilised, unlike what happens elsewhere, so is a mild bit of
crowding for a short period really an issue?

Anyway, the hoi polloi will only be on the train for quarter of an
hour, and if I was one of them I'm pretty sure I'd just stand in the
vestibule rather than faff around getting a seat.