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Old February 22nd 08, 01:02 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

[crossposted to uk.transport.london]

Shades of the finished but unopened Shepherd's Bush (Overground)
station on the West London Line, as documented on the London
Connections weblog:

http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...erd%27s%20Bush
(ignore any references to the closure of the Central line's Shepherds
Bush tube station)

How wide is a platforms supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...


On 22 Feb, 01:13, XxXxXx wrote:

Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

THOUSANDS of Merseyside commuters and football fans face an extra four
months of "chaos" at one of Liverpool's busiest train stations, it
emerged last night.

Sandhills station, currently undergoing a 6m revamp, will not now
open to passengers until July - 16 weeks after the original re-opening
date in March.

It means the new station will not be ready in time for passengers
heading to the Grand National at Aintree in April, one of the busiest
weekends on the Merseyrail network.

It will also mean Everton and Liverpool football fans using the
Soccerbus service from Sandhills will still have to embark at Kirkdale
and Bank Hall stations.

The reason for the delay is a row about the width of the station
platforms between passenger transport authority Merseytravel and
operator Merseyrail on one side and Network Rail on the other.

It is the latest in a number of disputes between the organisations and
has led to Merseytravel writing to Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly
demanding control of the Merseyrail network be taken out of the hands
of Network Rail.

Merseytravel wants to control the network so decisions on maintenance
are made locally.

At a meeting of Merseytravel's rail services committee, chief
executive Neil Scales said: "Our colleagues in Network Rail have made
a cock-up with one of the drawings.

"The drawings show a safe walking area platform of 2m wide. It should
be 2.5m. People can't walk on a platform of less than 2.5m.

"We want to make it absolutely clear that this has got nothing to do
with Merseyrail electrics or Merseytravel, it is entirely in the
control of Network Rail."

Merseyrail and Merseytravel said they only found out on Monday that
the platform would be narrower than 2.5m.

Sandhills is often used as a station where passengers alight when
there are problems with services, and a space of 2m is not judged safe
if high numbers of people are involved.

Cllr Mark Dowd, chairman of Merseytravel, said: "We are going to the
Government to say enough is enough. It's an absolute disaster, it will
create chaos, make no mistake about it.

"Network Rail is as much use as a chocolate fireguard, and this is
another kick in the teeth."

He said he was concerned it could cause disruption for the Grand
National in April.

The committee agreed a motion calling on the Government to hand
control of the network over to Merseytravel.

When open, 4,500 people use Sandhills station each day, adding up to
1.5m passengers a year, and it is also used by football fans catching
the Soccerbus service to Anfield and Goodison Park.

A spokesman for Network Rail insisted Merseytravel and Merseyrail had
been aware of the 2m clearance between hoardings and the platform edge
from "day one".

He said: "That has never been a concern until we had a meeting with
them on Monday.

"It was suggested by Merseyrail 'we keep the station closed until July
- a week before the Tall Ships event, because that would give
everybody a clear shot at working on the station'."

He insisted that, although 2m was not the "standard", it was safe and
acceptable.

He admitted Network Rail could have done with a two- week extension,
but added: "We are still working for a hand back of the station on
March 10."


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Old February 22nd 08, 07:35 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.


"Mizter T" wrote

How wide is a platform supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...


"Platforms to be not less than 6 feet wide"
(from the requirements of the Inspecting Officers of Railways, 29 April
1858)

The standard may have change during the past 150 years.

Peter


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Old February 22nd 08, 07:53 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

On 22 Feb, 02:02, Mizter T wrote:
How wide is a platforms supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...


The guideline is 2.5m. But decoding the article, it looks like Network
Rail wanted to reopen the station before they'd finished all work, and
the 2m width we're talking about is to a temporary construction
hoarding, for which they were presumably hoping to get a waiver.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London
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Old February 22nd 08, 08:02 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:35:45 -0000 someone who may be "Peter Masson"
wrote this:-

"Platforms to be not less than 6 feet wide"
(from the requirements of the Inspecting Officers of Railways, 29 April
1858)

The standard may have change during the past 150 years.


I may be wrong, but I doubt the original part of the platforms at
South Gyle are that wide, though the later extensions probably are.
The extensions are wider due to a change in the minimum width
requirements, but the extensions are at one end of the platforms
(the ends furthest from the main entrances and exits).

These platforms are dangerously narrow for the number of people
using them and a fair proportion of trains pass them at considerable
speed. If it wasn't for the huge railway cost increases since
privatisation I imagine they would have been widened by now.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
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Old February 22nd 08, 08:43 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

On 22 Feb, 08:53, Mr Thant
wrote:
How wide is a platforms supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...


The guideline is 2.5m. But decoding the article, it looks like Network
Rail wanted to reopen the station before they'd finished all work, and
the 2m width we're talking about is to a temporary construction
hoarding, for which they were presumably hoping to get a waiver.


The idiots at TfL and Merseyrail really ought to be shot. Far better
to have a platform that's 2m wide than no station at all...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org


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Old February 22nd 08, 09:37 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.

On 22 Feb, 09:43, John B wrote:
On 22 Feb, 08:53, Mr Thant
wrote:

How wide is a platforms supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...


The guideline is 2.5m. But decoding the article, it looks like Network
Rail wanted to reopen the station before they'd finished all work, and
the 2m width we're talking about is to a temporary construction
hoarding, for which they were presumably hoping to get a waiver.


The idiots at TfL and Merseyrail really ought to be shot. Far better
to have a platform that's 2m wide than no station at all...



Hmm, I don't know about Sandhills station but I'm really not so sure
about that when it comes to Shepherd's Bush. It's on the West London
Line, which is regularly used by freight trains - a freight train
consisting of containers passing through a station at speed is
somewhat disconcerting, and this effect is exacerbated when some of
the container flats are occupied and others are empty as that can
create some quite strong wind dynamics (totally the wrong term to use
I know but YNWIM). Add in a platform full of people waiting for a
train and you can have a slightly hairy situation.

And when one is building a new station (especially one that will be
used heavily for interchange) then one should aim for better than just
adequate. I certainly don't know the full story of Shepherd's Bush
station, though Mr Thant's London Connections blog does a good job of
trying to work it all out, but I certainly am not in the business of
condemning TfL and/or LOROL out of hand for refusing to use the new
station on the basis of uninformed assumptions.
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Old February 22nd 08, 06:59 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Row over platform width delays Sandhills station reopening.


"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
[crossposted to uk.transport.london]

Shades of the finished but unopened Shepherd's Bush (Overground)
station on the West London Line, as documented on the London
Connections weblog:

http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...erd%27s%20Bush
(ignore any references to the closure of the Central line's Shepherds
Bush tube station)

How wide is a platforms supposed to be? Well, how long is a piece of
string...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO it does look like they were 'aving a larf when they pulled out the
string that they were going to use at Shepherd's Bush.

Next to a major new shopping center this was likely to be a busy station.

tim






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