On 26 Feb, 22:43, Tim Woodall wrote:
The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope with the volume of
people trying to get through them.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/img_00000010.jpeg
is a still from my bike camera (sorry the quality isn't very good but
gives some idea, especially if you already know the layout of these
platforms.)

This is about 07:25 (I arrived on the 07:01 from Watford Junction) so
this isn't the peak of the rush hour. Later trains you cannot get a seat
at Watford Junction unless you're lucky, let alone Harrow and
Wealdstone.

I'm approximately at the back of the crowd, there aren't that many
people behind me. But a fair few must have already gone through the
barrier before I got there because I sit at the extreme Northern end of
the train and unfold my bike before I walk down the platform.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

The problem with Euston is that the staff will allow anyone and
everyone to use the gate and show their tickets. The gate is meant to
be for wheelchairs, bikes and passengers with large luggage. Using the
gate means that people do not have to take their season out of its
wallet. Or they can show a nectar card or whatever.
If the staff insisted on passengers using the barriers the flow
through would be a lot quicker. I think that the revenue would be a
lot greater as well.

On Feb 27, 9:44 am, somersetchris wrote:
On 26 Feb, 22:43, Tim Woodall wrote:



The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope with the volume of
people trying to get through them.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/img_00000010.jpeg
is a still from my bike camera (sorry the quality isn't very good but
gives some idea, especially if you already know the layout of these
platforms.)

This is about 07:25 (I arrived on the 07:01 from Watford Junction) so
this isn't the peak of the rush hour. Later trains you cannot get a seat
at Watford Junction unless you're lucky, let alone Harrow and
Wealdstone.

I'm approximately at the back of the crowd, there aren't that many
people behind me. But a fair few must have already gone through the
barrier before I got there because I sit at the extreme Northern end of
the train and unfold my bike before I walk down the platform.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

The problem with Euston is that the staff will allow anyone and
everyone to use the gate and show their tickets. The gate is meant to
be for wheelchairs, bikes and passengers with large luggage. Using the
gate means that people do not have to take their season out of its
wallet. Or they can show a nectar card or whatever.
If the staff insisted on passengers using the barriers the flow
through would be a lot quicker. I think that the revenue would be a
lot greater as well.

Maybe a lot do get through on Nectar cards etc but a proportion also
get stopped. I actually don't understand why people want to use the
gate because there's often a holdup when someone gets stopped
(although I suppose for people without luggage they can get past, it's
just the people with bikes, prams etc that get held up).

One day this week I noticed another Brompton rider who took his bike
through the barrier. I did ask if he had a special ticket or a special
trick but he just said you have to be quick.

I've done this but if you get the timing slightly wrong then either
you get bashed by the paddles (and it's hard enough to hurt) or they
grab the bike and then you're completely stuck until a guard comes and
opens the gate.

I'd really like to have some way of having my oyster card (or ticket
if you're a season ticket holder) flagged to hold the barrier open for
a few seconds more - five seconds would be all it would take. I know
this _could_ be abused but there's enough regular cyclists who are
using these barriers every day (I see the same 5 or six on my train
every morning) and we're recognised by at least some of the staff as
regular cyclists so it could be something like getting a form and then
getting one of the barrier guards to sign that you are a regular
cyclist and then getting some sort of flag put on your ticket (of
course, this all presupposes that the gates are even capable of having
an extended opening - I know they can stay open with the right ticket
but I don't know about a longer opening.)

Tim.

On 27 Feb, 09:54, " wrote:

(snip)

I'd really like to have some way of having my oyster card (or ticket
if you're a season ticket holder) flagged to hold the barrier open for
a few seconds more - five seconds would be all it would take. I know
this _could_ be abused but there's enough regular cyclists who are
using these barriers every day (I see the same 5 or six on my train
every morning) and we're recognised by at least some of the staff as
regular cyclists so it could be something like getting a form and then
getting one of the barrier guards to sign that you are a regular
cyclist and then getting some sort of flag put on your ticket (of
course, this all presupposes that the gates are even capable of having
an extended opening - I know they can stay open with the right ticket
but I don't know about a longer opening.)

Tim.


Interesting idea though I think the potential for abuse means that it
would be a non starter. I suspect that other issues such as safety (or
at least perceived safety) might come into it as well.

It sounds like the gateline staff at Euston should be somewhat more
discriminate in who they allow through the side gate - staff at other
stations are more insistent on this. Otherwise I suppose one should be
philosophical about the delay, given the time subsequently saved by
cycling - to be fair it sounds like you are already of this mindset,
along with being courteous and hanging back from the throng with your
bike.

On Feb 27, 11:34*am, Mizter T wrote:
On 27 Feb, 09:54, " wrote:





(snip)

I'd really like to have some way of having my oyster card (or ticket
if you're a season ticket holder) flagged to hold the barrier open for
a few seconds more - five seconds would be all it would take. I know
this _could_ be abused but there's enough regular cyclists who are
using these barriers every day (I see the same 5 or six on my train
every morning) and we're recognised by at least some of the staff as
regular cyclists so it could be something like getting a form and then
getting one of the barrier guards to sign that you are a regular
cyclist and then getting some sort of flag put on your ticket (of
course, this all presupposes that the gates are even capable of having
an extended opening - I know they can stay open with the right ticket
but I don't know about a longer opening.)

Tim.

Interesting idea though I think the potential for abuse means that it
would be a non starter. I suspect that other issues such as safety (or
at least perceived safety) might come into it as well.

It sounds like the gateline staff at Euston should be somewhat more
discriminate in who they allow through the side gate - staff at other
stations are more insistent on this. Otherwise I suppose one should be
philosophical about the delay, given the time subsequently saved by
cycling - to be fair it sounds like you are already of this mindset,
along with being courteous and hanging back from the throng with your
bike.

In my view the main problem with the barriers at Euston is that there
is not enough space between the ticket gates and barrier at the end of
Platform 9 and 10. This means that people get jammed up before they
even reach the gates and so the exit gates on one side or the other
don't see so much use; there is also no easy route for anyone trying
to get onto a train. For example, if my train arrives in Platform 11
very few people will be using the gates on the platform 8 side (and
vice-versa). Then, as has already been said above, people using the
manual gate just get in the way, when they have no need to be using
it.

Finally, there is the problem of a ticket gate (or two) that is Oyster
only. So you get people getting to the gate and then realising that
they can't use it with their paper ticket, causing more distruption as
they push in to the next one. A bit more effort by Network Rail to fix
these might help things, as would moving the barriers at the end of
Platform 9 and 10 back a bit and shortening the platforms (the
platforms are 9-10 coaches and so the full length isn't used anyway).
A more radical solution would be to add some barriers in the dividing
wall between platform 8 and the bottom of the slope upto the
concourse, but that might be expensive.

On 27 Feb, 12:23, Andy wrote:
A more radical solution would be to add some barriers in the dividing
wall between platform 8 and the bottom of the slope upto the
concourse, but that might be expensive.

Isn't part of the problem that you have one set of barriers for the
platforms directly opposite another set to get into the tube station?
I'd think you could increase capacity by moving the NR gateline to be
much nearer the concourse (I think it's wider there), leaving the tube
gateline open to the platforms directly.

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:
You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

On 27 Feb, 12:47, Jamie Thompson wrote:
On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.


But of course it doesn't have any platforms, nor any remnants of the
old platforms. Queen's Park has platforms already standing and ready
for use.

Past comments here have suggested that timetabling requirements would
mean stopping at QP would be quite awkward.

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Jamie Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

Neither of them have terribly good onward connections, though. Both give
you the Bakerloo, and WJ gives you the NLL; QP will one day soon give you
some form of NLL as well. I would guess that most people commuting into
Euston take the tube from there into offices in the west end or the City,
or somewhere between. The NLL doesn't help with any of that (through
running to the ELLX may one day get you to Shoreditch High Street, which
is near the City), and the Bakerloo only helps you if you're right at the
Oxford Circus end of town (which many people are, of course - but still a
minority, i think).

This is one of the reasons that replacing the Euston DC line services with
the Bakerloo is such an utterly worthless idea.

Finsbury Park works because it has a railway line running directly to the
City, and two tube lines that run across a swathe of the central west end.
Ditto Stratford for useful routes to Docklands and the City.

If you wanted to have Finsbury Park for Euston, it would have to be
somewhere like Chalk Farm, with a connection to the Northern line. Not
that encouraging people to get on that line is a very sensible or
humanitarian thing to do, of course.

Clearly, the all-round solution is a new branch of the Bakerloo, coming
off at Regent's Park and heading for the City. Hey - it it went to
Farringdon, it could take over the old Widened Lines, and you get bonus
points for that!

tom

--
HI DERE WAHT IS IT MADE

On Feb 27, 12:35*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 Feb, 12:23, Andy wrote:

A more radical solution would be to add some barriers in the dividing
wall between platform 8 and the bottom of the slope upto the
concourse, but that might be expensive.

Isn't part of the problem that you have one set of barriers for the
platforms directly opposite another set to get into the tube station?
I'd think you could increase capacity by moving the NR gateline to be
much nearer the concourse (I think it's wider there), leaving the tube
gateline open to the platforms directly.


I did think about putting that suggestion in. The trouble is that the
layout of the underground ticket office / gateline doesn't really lend
itself to having the flow coming down the steps leading directly to
the tube platforms, as the underground ticket office is on the
opposite side to the entrance from platform 8-11. You would also have
to lose or move the London Midland ticket office. I think that it
could be made to work for passengers coming from the underground to
platforms 8-11, but not vice-versa.

I also think that the Queens Park idea has some merit, it will be
interesting if this happens if the London Overground DC line services
are diverted away from Euston in the future.


You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:23:27 -0800 (PST),
Andy wrote:

In my view the main problem with the barriers at Euston is that there
is not enough space between the ticket gates and barrier at the end of
Platform 9 and 10. This means that people get jammed up before they
even reach the gates and so the exit gates on one side or the other
don't see so much use; there is also no easy route for anyone trying
to get onto a train. For example, if my train arrives in Platform 11
very few people will be using the gates on the platform 8 side (and
vice-versa). Then, as has already been said above, people using the
manual gate just get in the way, when they have no need to be using
it.

This is very true. Also, cyclists using the manual gate then have to
cross all the people coming through the barriers and going down to the
tube. Even worse if you come in on platforms 9 or 8 and a train comes in
on platforms 10 or 11, then you have to cross over twice.

I can understand why people don't want to have to get their season
ticket out. But a lot of the people who use the manual gate go down to
the underground where I presume they'll have to get the ticket out
anyway.

Finally, there is the problem of a ticket gate (or two) that is Oyster
only. So you get people getting to the gate and then realising that
they can't use it with their paper ticket, causing more distruption as
they push in to the next one. A bit more effort by Network Rail to fix
these might help things, as would moving the barriers at the end of
Platform 9 and 10 back a bit and shortening the platforms (the
platforms are 9-10 coaches and so the full length isn't used anyway).
A more radical solution would be to add some barriers in the dividing
wall between platform 8 and the bottom of the slope upto the
concourse, but that might be expensive.

It's the ticket office that makes things most difficult. Otherwise you
could put a gate line on the way up to the main concourse and another
going down to the tube. This would make some more space around the end
of platforms 9 and 10. Of course, then you'd probably need to have two
manual gates and twice as many staff.

Tim

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/