On Mar 11, 8:56 am, MIG wrote:
On Mar 11, 7:17 am, MIG wrote:

On Mar 11, 4:08 am, Offramp wrote:

Much earlier, I wrote:

"First of all I should point out to you that you cannot be charged
with fare evasion if you have a valid ticket."

Is this roundabout admission that you made a false accusation of fare-
evasion against me and anyone else who has traveled on the DLR with a
valid travelcard without touching in?

Or do you personally still think it's fare-evasion, because of your
obsession with some unworkable ToCs?

As I said earlier:
"I know that you will reply again saying that the Conditions of
Carriage are nonsensical and that everyone is happy, but those are
things for you to take up with Tfl's legal department. All I have done
is point out the relevant section and given at least one good reason
why that section would be there."

When I pointed out the condition that one has to touch in wherever
there is a validator I didn't think it would get quite the hysterical
response that it has. Why is an act that takes less than a second
causing seismic reactions?
Clearly, there is me and the Conditions of Carriage on one side, and
three or four people in this newsgroup on the other.
And since my argument is and always has been the Conditions of
Carriage, all I would be doing is repeating myself - repeating section
6.6.1 (Season tickets) - ad nauseam.
So in future, address your complaints to Tfl's legal department.

On Mar 11, 9:26*am, Offramp wrote:
On Mar 11, 8:56 am, MIG wrote:

On Mar 11, 7:17 am, MIG wrote:

On Mar 11, 4:08 am, Offramp wrote:

Much earlier, I wrote:

"First of all I should point out to you that you cannot be charged
with fare evasion if you have a valid ticket."

Is this roundabout admission that you made a false accusation of fare-
evasion against me and anyone else who has traveled on the DLR with a
valid travelcard without touching in?

Or do you personally still think it's fare-evasion, because of your
obsession with some unworkable ToCs?

As I said earlier:
"I know that you will reply again saying that the Conditions of
Carriage are nonsensical and that everyone is happy, but those are
things for you to take up with Tfl's legal department. All I have done
is point out the relevant section and given at least one good reason
why that section would be there."

When I pointed out the condition that one has to touch in wherever
there is a validator I didn't think it would get quite the hysterical
response that it has. Why is an act that takes less than a second
causing seismic reactions?
Clearly, there is me and the Conditions of Carriage on one side, and
three or four people in this newsgroup on the other.
And since my argument is and always has been the Conditions of
Carriage, all I would be doing is repeating myself - repeating section
6.6.1 (Season tickets) - ad nauseam.
So in future, address your complaints to Tfl's legal department.

They didn't accuse me of fare-evasion. You did.

The "hysterical response" was entirely due to your unfounded
allegation. Not only can you not back up your allegation, you can't
even come up with a scenario in which it is possible.

In the meantime, why don't you, having spent some time researching
into nonsensical CoCs, talk to TfL yourself about getting them fixed,
instead of making preposterous allegations against anyone who doesn't
comply with them?

Having admittedly bored everyone else by contributing to this idiotic
exchange, I am not going to contribute any more.

Subject: DLR Oyster card issue

Thank you for your email below, the trail of which started whilst I
was on annual leave.

Your summary ... is a bit harsh ... but the position has been slightly
muddied in the past by DLR due to validator capacity at your stations.

The official position, as outlined in the TfL Conditions of Carriage
and in publicity etc, is that when using Oyster on the Tube, DLR,
London Overground and National Rail, you must always touch in at the
start and touch out at the end of every trip. This is irrespective of
whether using a Travelcard season ticket only, PAYG only or a
combination of both. This has always been the position.

However, DLR have always taken the view that due to the number of
validators at your stations, the priority must be to get full/partial
journey users of PAYG to always touch in and out in preference to
Travelcard season ticket users i.e. you do not want PAYG users saying
they did not touch in/out due to a queue of Travelcard season ticket
only users causing congestion.

Having said the above, it is not the policy of TfL to Penalty Fare/
Prosecute anyone who has not touched in where they are found to be
using their Travelcard season ticket within Zone as there is no proof
of fraud. The only occasion when this would be possible is where the
Oyster card user has been caught starting/finishing/travelling 'out-of-
zone' (subject, of course, to the other Conditions of Carriage).

I hope that this goes some way to clarifying the position. If it does
not, please feel free to give me a call.

Best wishes
Ticketing Policy Manager
Transport for London | Fares and Ticketing
1st Floor | 1 Butler Place | London | SW1H 0PT

On Tuesday, April 8, 2008 5:06:42 AM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
Subject: DLR Oyster card issue

Thank you for your email below, the trail of which started whilst I
was on annual leave.

Your summary ... is a bit harsh ... but the position has been slightly
muddied in the past by DLR due to validator capacity at your stations.

The official position, as outlined in the TfL Conditions of Carriage
and in publicity etc, is that when using Oyster on the Tube, DLR,
London Overground and National Rail, you must always touch in at the
start and touch out at the end of every trip. This is irrespective of
whether using a Travelcard season ticket only, PAYG only or a
combination of both. This has always been the position.

However, DLR have always taken the view that due to the number of
validators at your stations, the priority must be to get full/partial
journey users of PAYG to always touch in and out in preference to
Travelcard season ticket users i.e. you do not want PAYG users saying
they did not touch in/out due to a queue of Travelcard season ticket
only users causing congestion.

Having said the above, it is not the policy of TfL to Penalty Fare/
Prosecute anyone who has not touched in where they are found to be
using their Travelcard season ticket within Zone as there is no proof
of fraud. The only occasion when this would be possible is where the
Oyster card user has been caught starting/finishing/travelling 'out-of-
zone' (subject, of course, to the other Conditions of Carriage).

I hope that this goes some way to clarifying the position. If it does
not, please feel free to give me a call.

Best wishes
Ticketing Policy Manager
Transport for London | Fares and Ticketing
1st Floor | 1 Butler Place | London | SW1H 0PT

Sir,

While being new to London and now slowly getting familiarized with the systems I find the services to be of good quality. The only place where it has been a bit difficult/complicated is on the DLR as validating machines are nowhere in eyesight. I went all over the place (greenwich stn)and finally found one but it did not work, I went and inquired and was told to go the nearest underground station where they would sort it. I obviously could not travel to the underground station (another trip). It charged me for the full day fare which was twice the cost of my actual trip. Being new here I felt a bit helpless. I understand that there are some teething problems but if the validating machines are in working order and clearly marked/kept at the exits your passengers would be much thankful and it would avoid much of the confusion.

Thanks and Regards,

On Friday, 29 February 2008 10:53:04 UTC, MIG wrote:

I've never bothered to touch a travelcard on a bendy bus. On a bus I
can't see that there's any possibility of this being fare-evasion,
since there can be no extended zones involved.

What about Tramlink? They used to have notices warning of dire consequences of not touching in at the start of a journey, and stated that this applied even if an Oyster had a valid bus pass or Travelcard loaded. I'm not sure if these notices are still in place; I seldom use the system because it doesn't go anywhere that I often want to go. They also stated that it was necessary to touch in when changing from one tram route to another, which it had never occurred to me to do because it would be like changing from say Victoria to Northern Line at Euston.

What about a DLR journey which I did make recently, for Open House weekend. I Traveled to Stratford on the original line via Pudding Mill Lane and then changed there onto the other DLR line to get to Star Lane then walked to Cody Dock. Is it necessary to touch out when leaving platform 4 a or b when changing to a train on the former North London Line platforms?