Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

lonelytraveller wrote:
On Mar 25, 9:53 am, "Grumpy Old Man"
wrote:

The only way to get good, spacious, affordable housing in Britain is to have a
smaller population. It's gone up 50% in the past hundred years.

The housing crisis is more about the fact that everyone wants to live
in their own home now, while before people were content to have their
entire family live in the upstairs floor of a standard victorian
terrace house.

I'm one Yorkshireman, so we just need three more then we are all set for
the rest of the thread...

--
Arthur Figgis

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

Andy wrote:
On Mar 28, 3:50 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

At the risk of going off at a slight tangent, are Thameslink
services on the Wimbledon loop constrained currently by the single
platform and bidirectional working at Wimbledon? Given the eventual
proposed Thameslink frequencies, will the decision to give a
platform over to Tramlink come to be regretted ?

Paul S

I think that there are constrained from getting much more frequent on
the Wimbledon to Sutton bit, due to the single platform. From memory,
services are approximately every 30 minutes around the loop in each
direction (even during the peak hours), giving 4 trains per hour
through the single platform. I suppose that the frequency could be
increased, but probably not to much more than every 15 minutes in each
direction without affecting reliability and pathing.

However (and I don't know if this is planned), there is the
terminating track at the north end of the platform where the Tramlink
platform is. This would allow a greater frequency on the Wimbledon -
Tooting - Thameslink route. There are a couple of trains that use this
already during the peak shoulders.

Thanks, presumably only 4 car trains though? I did notice the other day
that platform 10 still has the same stop markers as platform 9, for trains
arriving from the southwest through back to back buffer stops presumably!

Paul S

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

In article ,
Arthur Figgis wrote:
lonelytraveller wrote:

The housing crisis is more about the fact that everyone wants to live
in their own home now, while before people were content to have their
entire family live in the upstairs floor of a standard victorian
terrace house.

I'm one Yorkshireman, so we just need three more then we are all set for
the rest of the thread...

One Yorkshireman ? You were lucky ......

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 17th February 2008)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

Andy wrote:
On Mar 28, 3:50 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

I think that there are constrained from getting much more frequent on
the Wimbledon to Sutton bit, due to the single platform. From memory,
services are approximately every 30 minutes around the loop in each
direction (even during the peak hours), giving 4 trains per hour
through the single platform. I suppose that the frequency could be
increased, but probably not to much more than every 15 minutes in each
direction without affecting reliability and pathing.

However (and I don't know if this is planned), there is the
terminating track at the north end of the platform where the Tramlink
platform is. This would allow a greater frequency on the Wimbledon -
Tooting - Thameslink route. There are a couple of trains that use this
already during the peak shoulders.

Now that the South London RUS is out - I see Wimbledon loop trains will be
terminating in the bays at Blackfriars in the final Thameslink arrangement,
avoiding the crossing moves south of Blackfriars that we have discussed in
the past. There seems no real reason why the service might not be
transferred to Southern (or LO) then, using DC stock, leaving FCC or their
successor to concentrate on the main routes?

Paul S

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Paul Scott wrote:

Andy wrote:
On Mar 28, 3:50 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

I think that there are constrained from getting much more frequent on
the Wimbledon to Sutton bit, due to the single platform. From memory,
services are approximately every 30 minutes around the loop in each
direction (even during the peak hours), giving 4 trains per hour
through the single platform. I suppose that the frequency could be
increased, but probably not to much more than every 15 minutes in each
direction without affecting reliability and pathing.

However (and I don't know if this is planned), there is the
terminating track at the north end of the platform where the Tramlink
platform is. This would allow a greater frequency on the Wimbledon -
Tooting - Thameslink route. There are a couple of trains that use this
already during the peak shoulders.

Now that the South London RUS is out - I see Wimbledon loop trains will be
terminating in the bays at Blackfriars in the final Thameslink arrangement,

Blimey. Bit of a blow to south Londoners.

avoiding the crossing moves south of Blackfriars that we have discussed in
the past.

Has anyone proposed a flyover somewhere that would allow them to get on to
the through lines without conflicts? I know there are all sorts of planned
bits of infrastructure down there, and i can't keep track of them.

There seems no real reason why the service might not be transferred to
Southern (or LO) then, using DC stock, leaving FCC or their successor to
concentrate on the main routes?

That would fit perfectly with Thameslink's new focus on outer suburban /
middle-distance services. But not with Ken/TfL/London Rail's growing power
to promote inner suburban services. Unless he thought he could get more
frequency on that route by making it LO. Or making it a part of the ELL!

tom

--
We don't contact anybody or seek anybody's permission for what we do. Even
if it's impersonating postal employees. -- Birdstuff

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

On 2 Apr, 15:09, Tom Anderson wrote:
Has anyone proposed a flyover somewhere that would allow them to get on to
the through lines without conflicts? I know there are all sorts of planned
bits of infrastructure down there, and i can't keep track of them.

Only two that I know of:
- A flyover just east of London Bridge allowing trains from points
south towards Thameslink can cross over trains from points east to
Charing Cross (not sure exactly which lines)
- Doubling "Tanners Hill flydown", which is a flying junction just
west of Lewisham. Again, not sure exactly which trains make use of it.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Mr Thant wrote:

On 2 Apr, 15:09, Tom Anderson wrote:

Has anyone proposed a flyover somewhere that would allow them to get on to
the through lines without conflicts? I know there are all sorts of planned
bits of infrastructure down there, and i can't keep track of them.

Only two that I know of:
- A flyover just east of London Bridge allowing trains from points
south towards Thameslink can cross over trains from points east to
Charing Cross (not sure exactly which lines)
- Doubling "Tanners Hill flydown", which is a flying junction just
west of Lewisham. Again, not sure exactly which trains make use of it.

Yeah. I think this lets trains coming from LB on the SE main line fasts
get into Lewisham's Hither Green-bound platforms without conflicting with
trains coming the other way. But as you say, why? Is there some kind of
Hayes / Lee / Orpington slow service that runs into LB on the fasts for
some reason?

Anyway, neither of these do anything for Sutton loop trains wanting to go
to St Albans.

Maybe that's where the Bakerloo should go to the south ...

tom

--
We don't contact anybody or seek anybody's permission for what we do. Even
if it's impersonating postal employees. -- Birdstuff

Crossrail could bankrupt London - says Ken Livingstone
 

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 2 Apr, 15:09, Tom Anderson wrote:
Has anyone proposed a flyover somewhere that would allow them to get on
to
the through lines without conflicts? I know there are all sorts of
planned
bits of infrastructure down there, and i can't keep track of them.

Only two that I know of:
- A flyover just east of London Bridge allowing trains from points
south towards Thameslink can cross over trains from points east to
Charing Cross (not sure exactly which lines)
- Doubling "Tanners Hill flydown", which is a flying junction just
west of Lewisham. Again, not sure exactly which trains make use of it.

The change of mind about the destination of the Thameslink trains via
Elephant & Castle (6tph in the peaks) means that they will all run via
Catford, while trains via Herne Hill (Wimbledon Loop and Kent House) will be
kept quite separate on the west side and terminate at the new bays on the
upstream side of Blackfriars.

The grade-separated junction at Bermondsey will actually be a diveunder to
take Thameslink trains under the Charing Cross lines and the down London
Bridge - New Cross Gate slow line. In the same area is the flying junction
giving northbound ELLX trains their own route from the up side of New Cross
Gate to the ELL.

The Tanners Hill spur is being doubled as the presence of Thameslink trains
in the middle of the Greenwich viaduct will mean that Charing Cross trains
will not easily be able to access the slow lines west of New Cross, so will
have to use the Tanners Hill spur to reach Lewisham.

One other possible flyover that is discussed in the RUS, but kicked into the
long grass, is one at Herne Hill to separate Elephant & Castle to Tulse Hill
flows from Victoria to Kent house trains.

RUS thinking is that Thameslink to South Eastern via London Bridge trains
will run down the Tonbridge Main Line, rather than the previous proposal to
run to Dartford (via Bexleyheath and via Sidcup) - this is apparently easier
to path in the Lewisham area, and makes up for a likely reduction in Cannon
Street - Tonbridge Main Line trains. At present some Cannon Street trains
run ecs to/from or via Blackfriars Reversing Sidings, but the Cannon
Street - Metropolitan Junction spur is being taken out for Thameslink, so
all Cannon Street ecs will have to run via London Bridge, and this will
limit the capacity of London Bridge to 20 tph.