On 23 Apr, 22:06, Paul Corfield wrote:

They have bus to bus transfer in New York. Return trips are banned
within the transfer system so as to force people to pay for an outward
and return ride.

It's a bit more complicated than that; if you pay your bus fare in
cash you can ask the driver for a transfer, which is a card ticket
which looks like a single ride Metrocard, except that the printing on
it is blue rather than green. If you don't ask for a transfer then no
ticket is issued, and you would have to pay again on the next bus The
transfer is valid for two hours, but not on the same route number.
i.e. if you choose to break your journey then you don't get a free
transfer, but if you have to transfer to another route to complete the
journey then you do. Only one free transfer is normally allowed, and
when you drop the transfer ticket into the machine on the second bus
it retains it.

here are two types of Metrocard. If you use an unlimited ride
Metrocard, i.e. their answer to a Travelcard, then you can obviously
transfer as often as you like, until the ticket expires. If you use a
pay-per-ride Metrocard, think Oyster Pay-as-you-go, then you get one
free transfer from bus to bus or between subway and bus. The Staten
Island Ferry is free, and seems to count as an extra fee transfer, so
you could get on the Subway in the Bronx, ride all the way to
Whitehall St., get on the free ferry, get onto the Staten Island
Railway at St. George, and get a free transfer there, but if you get
off the train at Eltingville, and board the S79 bus from there to
Staten Island Mall for example, then he transfer to the bus also seems
to be free.

Out of station transfers on the Subway are also complicated. They are
allowed between certain pairs of stations, which are shown linked by a
black line on the map, but not between others. For example, there is
no free transfer between Whitehall Street on the W and R lines and
South Ferry on the 1 line, although the stations are right next to
each other. I don't know if the fact that one station was part of the
BMT, but the other was IRT has anything to do with it.

A paper single ride Metrocard is valid for two hours on Bus or Subway,
but unlike other Metrocards, not for transfer. This is a bit odd,
considering that they cost the same as a journey made with a pay-per-
ride Metrocard which does allow transfer. The Unlimited Ride and pay-
per-ride Metrocards are both thin plastic, and look identical, but a
ticket has to be one or the other, you cannot have bot on the same
ticket, as with an Oyster card. Strangely, the pay-per ride Metrocard
can be topped up and reused, until the card itself expires, which it
does after several months, but the unlimited ride Metrocard cannot be
re-used, a new one has to be obtained each time, even if it is just a
one day one.

Pay-per-ride Metrocards, but not unlimited ride ones, are also now
valid on PATH, the underground line operated by the Port Authority
which runs between New York and New Jersey. PATHs own Quickcard is
being phased out, you can no longer buy it from machines at PATH
stations, but you can still get them from NJ Transit ticket machines.
NJ Transit trains, Metro North Railroad, Long Island Rail Road Hudson
Bergen Light Rail and Newark City Subway all have their own tickets.
They are introducing a smart card ticket, the Smartlink Card; it's
valid on PATH, but I'm not sure what else. I'll be over there anain
next month, I'll have to find out.

Americans seem to like to make things complicated for some reason, you
should see their electrical system! The idea of being able to
transfer between buses to complete a journey, as you can with the
Underground for example, does seem reasonable though.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, wrote:

On 23 Apr, 22:06, Paul Corfield wrote:

in New York

A paper single ride Metrocard is valid for two hours on Bus or Subway,
but unlike other Metrocards, not for transfer. This is a bit odd,
considering that they cost the same as a journey made with a pay-per-
ride Metrocard which does allow transfer.

So a single-ride metrocard and a pay-per-ride card with one ride left are
not equivalent? This seems quite bonkers.

Pay-per-ride Metrocards, but not unlimited ride ones, are also now
valid on PATH,

This also seems a bit bonkers. Is this because they couldn't negotiate a
satisfactory revenue-sharing arrangement with the MTA?

tom

--
megaptera novae angliae, soundwork chris draper, push, pull, open, ..

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 06:03:38AM -0700, Mizter T wrote:
On 28 Apr, 13:00, David Cantrell wrote:
With the road works along New Oxford St right now, [bus 38] is instead
running directly from Holborn station along High Holborn and Shaftesbury
Avenue westbound, skipping TCR. Eastbound it still goes up Charing
Cross Road and along New Oxford St. The current westbound route works a
*lot* better, and I can only hope that TfL realise this and keep it.
I absolutely agree. Indeed, before the current road works, I've seen
westbound 38s being sent down Shaftesbury Avenue anyway when the whole
area around TCR was jammed up for some reason (perhaps due to the
knock-on effects of roadworks elsewhere).

Eastbound sometimes go that way too, although it's *very* rare.

I dunno if that would be workable in the eastbound direction though...

That section of the route is only very rarely a problem going eastbound
anyway.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

I apologize if I offended you personally,
I intended to do it professionally.
-- Steve Champeon, on the nanog list

On 28 Apr, 23:01, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, wrote:
On 23 Apr, 22:06, Paul Corfield wrote:

in New York

A paper single ride Metrocard is valid for two hours on Bus or Subway,
but unlike other Metrocards, not for transfer. *This is a bit odd,
considering that they cost the same as a journey made with a pay-per-
ride Metrocard which does allow transfer.

So a single-ride metrocard and a pay-per-ride card with one ride left are
not equivalent? This seems quite bonkers.

Pay-per-ride Metrocards hold an amount of money, just like Oyster pay
as you go, not a number of trips, but a card with just enough value
left on it to make one trip would be valid for a transfer to, from or
between buses, but a single ride Metrrocard would not; you are
correct, they are not the same, unless things have changed since I was
last there two years ago.

PATH Quickcards do hold a number of trips, not a sum of money; yet
another difference between the two.

Pay-per-ride Metrocards, but not unlimited ride ones, are also now
valid on PATH,

This also seems a bit bonkers. Is this because they couldn't negotiate a
satisfactory revenue-sharing arrangement with the MTA?

I can't think of any technical reason for it, so this does seem to be
the likely reason. Until recently, maybe three years ago now, PATH
didn't accept Metrocards at all, they started accepting them when they
installed new turnstiles, so while this work was in progress some
stations could take them, while others could not. The new turnstiles
have two slots, one for Quickcards and the other for Metrocards, and
when I was there a circular area on top which I assume was for an
Oyster style reader for the new Smartlink cards, which weren't in use
at that time. When PATH installed the new turnstiles they retained
the old coin accepter as well; these were attached to a couple of
turnstiles at each station, but I believe that these have recently
been taken out of use. For a while the Subway still accepted the old
tokens alongside Metrocards, but these were finally phased out some
years ago now.

The fact that PATH quickcards are no longer available from PATHs own
ticket machines, but are still (unless they have been withdrawn
recently) available from NJ Transit machines is also a bit strange.

The fact that within a fairly small area you're having to deal with
the Port Authority, the MTA, the Department of Transportation, NJ
Transit, and probably some others that I've missed out complicates
things, as does the fact that the area spans two different states.
They really could do with something similar to a Travelcard, which is
valid on just about any sort of local transport.

I found that transport over there was generally good, but could be
confusing; I think that London is much better at providing information
than New York is.

On Apr 28, 6:01 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

This also seems a bit bonkers. Is this because they couldn't negotiate a
satisfactory revenue-sharing arrangement with the MTA?

This is my last day in New Jersey; I'm flying home tomorrow. A few
things have changed since I was last here. NJ Transit fares have gone
up, it's now $1.35 on the River Line and Newark City Subway, now
renamed Newark Light Rail; HBLR is now $1.90.

On PATH the 'Smartlink' contactless card is now in use, alongside the
PATH Quickcard, and the pay-per-ride Metrocard. The fare has risen to
$1.75 in March this year, it had been $1.50 since I first came over
here six years ago, and the facility to by by cash at a few turnstiles
has been removed; I'm durprised that this wasn't done when the new
turnstiles were installed about three years ago, and the existing coin
acceptors wereconnected to them via a large metal box, containing I
don't know what.

If you use a Metrocard $1.75 is deducted per ride, but you still get a
bonus if you top up $10 or more. Unlimited ride Metrocards are still
not accepted. 11 trip Quickcards have been replaced by 10 trip ones
at $13,
20 trip ones are $26 and 40 trip ones are $52. These are still
available from newsagents and NJ Transit ticket machines, but not PATH
ones. The Port Authority have stated that Quickcards will be phased
out, but haven't given a timescale. They expire after 180 days, so
once withdrawn they will disappear quick quickly.

Few people seem to be using the new Smartlink cards yet. I've got
one, they are sold with 10 trips on for $18, i.e. $5 charge for the
card, by machines which only take $20 in cash, and give $2 change.
They can be topped up at PATH ticket machines, with the same number of
trips, and at the same cost, as Quickcards. They can also have
unlimited passes loaded onto them at $6 for 1 day, $18 for 7 days or
$54 for 30 days. Unlimited passes are only available on Smartlink
cards. The cards can have both trips and unlimited passes loaded at
the same time; the unlimited pass will be used if there is one, but if
the card is used again within 18 minutes (I'm not sure if this is only
at the same station, or at another one) then one trip will be ducted,
so the card can be 'passed back' to another passenger travelling with
you. So far so good, but now for the negative bit. They are only for
PATH, so in this way they are a step backwards. The MTA have a trial
of a contactless system in use at a few stations on the Subway, but
this is quite different, and is being run in conjunction with
Citibank; I don't know the details. When you buy the card from the
machine you don't get a wallet with it; I keep mine in my Oyster
wallet. I have heard of problems when two contactless cards are used
in the same wallet, but my Smartlink card works fine with my Oyster
next to it; whether the Oyster will read when next to the Smartlink
I'll know on Thursday.

My guess would be that a single contactless card will one day be
available for use on MTA metro and buses, and PATH, but it will be
some years away yet. There's no indication that this might be
extended to Metro-North Railroad, Long Island Rail Road, HBLR, Newark
Light Rail, NJ Transit trains and buses or ferries. I would guess
that it will probably be accepted on the Staten Island Railway if it
does become permanent on the subway. The trial period was to have
ended by now, but has been extended. This all seems to still be some
way behind where London is with the Oyster.

There's still no chip and pin for credit cards here, but a mag stripe
and pin system does seem to be in use in some places.