Currently on vacation in London and doing some railfanning, and I had
some questions about my Oyster usage after today's travels, especially
on number 2 since I would like my penalty fare taken off if at all
possible.

1. When does it implement the price cap? Overnight or as I travel
during the day?

2. I had this happen to me today: At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. Any idea what happened here? Any way of getting my
money back?

Thanks, in advance, I'll also take any suggestions for photo spots
worth checking out anywhere on the Underground or DLR.

Oren H
www.orenstransitpage.com

On 20 May, 00:17, "Oren (Cornell)" wrote:
1. *When does it implement the price cap? *Overnight or as I travel
during the day?

As you travel. The fare that gets you to the cap will be lower than
normal so you hit it exactly, and all subsequent journeys are £0.00.

2. *I had this happen to me today: *At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). *At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. *I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. *Any idea what happened here? *

Touching out and in at Baker Street isn't enough to break your journey
(you need to wait 15 minutes), so you went over the two hour limit and
were charged for two incomplete journeys. It's best to do tours around
the system on a paper Travelcard rather than Oyster, which also lets
you use the mainline trains around London as well, and you don't have
to worry about limits or touching in and out at all.

Any way of getting my money back?

You have to phone the helpline.

Thanks, in advance, *I'll also take any suggestions for photo spots
worth checking out anywhere on the Underground or DLR.

I'd take a trip to the far northeast ends of the Central and
Piccadilly Lines. A lot of the stations are worth stopping at (Gant's
Hill, Newbury Park, Arnos Grove, etc) and you get some interesting
scenery.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT), "Oren (Cornell)"
wrote:

Currently on vacation in London and doing some railfanning, and I had
some questions about my Oyster usage after today's travels, especially
on number 2 since I would like my penalty fare taken off if at all
possible.

[snip as Mr Thant has explained already]

Thanks, in advance, I'll also take any suggestions for photo spots
worth checking out anywhere on the Underground or DLR.

Tower Gateway and West India Quay on DLR as they are both about to
change beyond recognition. Also South Quay before it closes and moves.

If you can be bothered to make the trek it might be worth seeing if
anything is happening yet on the old NR line from Stratford to Canning
Town in terms of DLR conversion works.

Strangely it will also be worth your while taking some pictures at
Stratford - especially the w/b Central Line platform as the Olympics
work will change that considerably as well.

Any of the Jubilee Line Extension stations are worth a snap or two at
ground level. Canada Water may end up with a development of the top of
it so if you aren't resident in London you may wish to photograph that.

I understand Southgate is nearly completion in terms of its
refurbishment and is worth a look. Also Cockfosters and Oakwood which
have been refurbished too, make sure to see the old style signs by the
bus stops at Cockfosters.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 19 May 2008, Oren (Cornell) wrote:

Thanks, in advance, I'll also take any suggestions for photo spots worth
checking out anywhere on the Underground or DLR.

Southwark station is pretty amazing. Most of the Jubilee line extension
stations (everything south/east of Green Park) are, but Southwark has a
particularly fine mid-level concourse, at the top of its escalators.

DLR from Docklands to Lewisham is worth a ride, for the trip through
Docklands, and then for the rollercoaster-like curves of the line south of
the river. Not terribly photographable, but quite fun!

tom

--
there is never a wrong time to have your bullets passing further into
someone's face -- D

On 20 May, 12:41, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 19 May 2008, Oren (Cornell) wrote:
Thanks, in advance, I'll also take any suggestions for photo spots worth
checking out anywhere on the Underground or DLR.

Southwark station is pretty amazing. Most of the Jubilee line extension
stations (everything south/east of Green Park) are, but Southwark has a
particularly fine mid-level concourse, at the top of its escalators.

Bear in mind that flash photography is NOT permitted on Underground
platforms though.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mr Thant wrote:

2. *I had this happen to me today: *At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). *At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. *I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. *Any idea what happened here? *

Touching out and in at Baker Street isn't enough to break your journey
(you need to wait 15 minutes),

So if you touch out at Baker Street, then touch in again at the same
gateline, it works as an out-of-station interchange just as if you
touched in at Marylebone? Interesting.

"asdf" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mr Thant wrote:

2. I had this happen to me today: At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. Any idea what happened here?

Touching out and in at Baker Street isn't enough to break your journey
(you need to wait 15 minutes),

So if you touch out at Baker Street, then touch in again at the same
gateline, it works as an out-of-station interchange just as if you
touched in at Marylebone? Interesting.

Based on posts here over the last couple of years I reckon 15 mins is the
common setting for exit and re-entry to be discounted.

However I got caught by the two hour limit on a journey via Stratford,
having been out for some shopping, and the helpline reckoned it is set to 30
mins interchange there...

Paul S

On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:50:37 +0100, Paul Scott wrote:

So if you touch out at Baker Street, then touch in again at the same
gateline, it works as an out-of-station interchange just as if you
touched in at Marylebone? Interesting.

Based on posts here over the last couple of years I reckon 15 mins is the
common setting for exit and re-entry to be discounted.

However I got caught by the two hour limit on a journey via Stratford,
having been out for some shopping, and the helpline reckoned it is set to 30
mins interchange there...

A couple of years ago I did Baker Street - Marylebone (NR) as an
out-of-station interchange, with around 25 mins between touch-out and
touch-in, and it still worked fine. (It would make sense for this
interchange to be set to longer than 15 mins, as on top of the walk
between stations, you have to wait outside the barriers at Marylebone
until your train is announced.)

But if the system design isn't even complex enough to recognise that
touch-out followed by touch-in at the same gateline isn't an
interchange[1], I don't expect that there actually are custom
interchange time limits per location.

[1] This isn't necessarily a criticism, by the way. The KISS principle
very much applies in IT projects.

On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:50:37 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"asdf" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mr Thant wrote:

2. I had this happen to me today: At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. Any idea what happened here?

Touching out and in at Baker Street isn't enough to break your journey
(you need to wait 15 minutes),

So if you touch out at Baker Street, then touch in again at the same
gateline, it works as an out-of-station interchange just as if you
touched in at Marylebone? Interesting.

Based on posts here over the last couple of years I reckon 15 mins is the
common setting for exit and re-entry to be discounted.

However I got caught by the two hour limit on a journey via Stratford,
having been out for some shopping, and the helpline reckoned it is set to 30
mins interchange there...

Sorry but I am struggling to understand this. The out of station
interchange time parameter only applies where there is another station
that is part of the interchange. Ignore the interchange gateline at
Stratford as that's irrelevant I don't see how there is a valid OSI at
that location. Yes there are other operators that accept LU fares / PAYG
rates but they are all within the gateline perimeter so no need to go
out and in or vice versa.

I thought the OSI have been removed at Baker Street within months of
gates being installed because of the litter problem of thousands of
tickets being given back when people didn't want them. Any interchange
was handled manually via the manual gate for those not wishing to use
the Bakerloo to M'bone. I guess it is possible that it might have been
re-instated for PAYG but not mag tickets but it doesn't explain the OP's
issue.

There is no reason why a journey could not restart on PAYG at Baker St
within a minute assuming the OP touched out and then touched back in -
I'm not aware that causes an error. Touch in and touch out then someone
is just changing their mind and that causes an issue with mag stripe and
smart tickets.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:50:37 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"asdf" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mr Thant wrote:

2. I had this happen to me today: At 19:42, as a two hour ride was
ending, I touched out at Baker Street, and immediately touched back in
at 19:43 (I got these times from a vending machine after I discovered
this and I had it pull up my trip history). At 21:20 or so, I exited
at Leichster Square, having gone to Moorgate, Farrington, and then out
to Walthamstow in the meantime, and was charged 4 GBP. I was also
charged 4 GBP for the trip starting at Baker Street that supposedly
never ended. Any idea what happened here?

Touching out and in at Baker Street isn't enough to break your journey
(you need to wait 15 minutes),

So if you touch out at Baker Street, then touch in again at the same
gateline, it works as an out-of-station interchange just as if you
touched in at Marylebone? Interesting.

Based on posts here over the last couple of years I reckon 15 mins is the
common setting for exit and re-entry to be discounted.

However I got caught by the two hour limit on a journey via Stratford,
having been out for some shopping, and the helpline reckoned it is set to
30
mins interchange there...

Sorry but I am struggling to understand this. The out of station
interchange time parameter only applies where there is another station
that is part of the interchange. Ignore the interchange gateline at
Stratford as that's irrelevant I don't see how there is a valid OSI at
that location. Yes there are other operators that accept LU fares / PAYG
rates but they are all within the gateline perimeter so no need to go
out and in or vice versa.


I arrived from Waterloo via the Northern and Central Lines, the Jubilee was
closed for eng wks,- left the station via the main gateline, and came back
in the same way after just less than 30 mins, and left on main line back
towards Liverpool St aiming for Kings Cross. Between Liverpool St (Circle)
and Kings Cross, I ended up with an uncompleted journey, and then an
uncommenced journey. Helpline sorted it all out - the 30 mins was their
explanation.

I didn't think I was using an OSI, I thought I had started a new journey...

Paul