"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Neil Williams wrote:

1. Allowing the bus the option to overtake and turn at traffic lights
(this is one of the best features of Dutch and German bus lanes -
basically the bus gets its own signal so it can pass in the bus lane then
turn right (left) across traffic).

Their left, our right, i take it? This sounds like a rather good idea.


I haven't heard of own signals for busses, but I have heard over the years
that they are working on a system that would give priority to busses at
traffic signals.

It seems only to be talk, however, as I have never heard or seen anything
like that in actual practice.

Neil Williams wrote:

I've seen bus overtaking lanes installed in a few places, including in
Milton Keynes, bizarrely with one of them being installed where there
is no actual bus route! (Presumably for future expansion as the road
works were being done anyway). However I've not seen an
overtake-and-turn-right, despite there being *loads* of places in
London where this would be easy to implement and very useful.

There is one in Bloomsbury Street approximately opposite Bedford Avenue.
From here on the bus lane is on the right side, ready for the turn into New
Oxford Street. I think it used to work okay before the bendies, but bendies
usually end up stretching across all three lanes here.

On 23 Nov, 12:23, wrote:
I haven't heard of own signals for busses, but I have heard over the years
that they are working on a system that would give priority to busses at
traffic signals.

It seems only to be talk, however, as I have never heard or seen anything
like that in actual practice.

The system is called "extended green" and keeps the lights from
changing in the face of an approaching bus. There's no visible
indication a set of lights has it.

U

wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Neil Williams wrote:

1. Allowing the bus the option to overtake and turn at traffic
lights (this is one of the best features of Dutch and German bus
lanes - basically the bus gets its own signal so it can pass in the
bus lane then turn right (left) across traffic).

Their left, our right, i take it? This sounds like a rather good
idea.

I haven't heard of own signals for busses, but I have heard over the
years that they are working on a system that would give priority to
busses at traffic signals.

It seems only to be talk, however, as I have never heard or seen
anything like that in actual practice.

There are numerous places in Greater London where traffic lights give buses
(usually taxis too) priority over other traffic. They generally take the
form of a traffic light on a short island between the bus lane and the
traffic lanes(s), with no stop line in the bus lane, and they occur just
before a traffic light controlled junction and are synchronised with it. For
most of the time that the main traffic lights are red, only bus lane traffic
can get to the main junction, then when the main junction is about to turn
green, all traffic is allowed to reach the main lights. So conceptually it's
the same as advanced stop lines for cycles.

Here's one in Seven Sisters Road on the northbound approach to Fonthill
Rd...
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one in South Lambeth Road just before you hit the Vauxhall one way
system.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one in Harrow....
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one near the Ironbridge in Hanwell/Southall
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

This looks like another version even closer to the Ironbridge, although I've
never noticed this one on the ground, I found it now when I was looking for
a map of the other.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

I think there are some in Walworth Rd and Camberwell Road, but they might be
too new to be on the photos. This is nowhere near an exhaustive list.

John Rowland wrote:

There are numerous places in Greater London where traffic lights give
buses (usually taxis too) priority over other traffic. They generally
take the form of a traffic light on a short island between the bus
lane and the traffic lanes(s), with no stop line in the bus lane, and
they occur just before a traffic light controlled junction and are
synchronised with it. For most of the time that the main traffic
lights are red, only bus lane traffic can get to the main junction,
then when the main junction is about to turn green, all traffic is
allowed to reach the main lights. So conceptually it's the same as
advanced stop lines for cycles.

Actually, I've just realised what a clever device these are. They give the
bus the equivalent of a bus lane right up to the lights, but with the added
ability to potentially turn right, while they don't reduce the capacity of
the junction for other traffic one iota in the way a bus lane right up to
the lights would.

Here's one in Seven Sisters Road on the northbound approach to
Fonthill Rd...
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one in South Lambeth Road just before you hit the Vauxhall one
way system.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one in Harrow....
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Here's one near the Ironbridge in Hanwell/Southall
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

This looks like another version even closer to the Ironbridge,
although I've never noticed this one on the ground, I found it now
when I was looking for a map of the other.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

I think there are some in Walworth Rd and Camberwell Road, but they
might be too new to be on the photos. This is nowhere near an
exhaustive list.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:45:53 -0800 (PST), Mizter T

2. Giving the bus the right to change traffic lights in its favour.

TfL did a lot of experimenting with this, and I'm not sure what happened.
Where I work did some tests too and while they worked it was never rolled
out for some reason.

The Microwave sources on the tops of the lights, and now little boxes with
aerials are linked back into the local control unit, when a vaild coded
signal is recieved it triggers a cycle in favour of the lamp recieving the
signal.

6. Removing known-problem zebra crossings and replacing with
signalised crossings. In the height of the peak, you'd cut 5 minutes
at least off a journey on the 15 if that crossing at St Pauls was to
be removed and replaced with a proper crossing.

Yes! in the days of having to use the 26 when there was no WL&C line it was
the single biggest delay on the route most mornings...

9. Better enforcement - having a wheel in the bus lane should be
considered an offence, as that's normally enough to delay the bus.

Enforcement is quite good, but only where you have CCTV enforcement - and
there is always going to be someone who has been 'pushed' over the line by a
truck or something. I'll let others debate enforcement

I haven't heard of own signals for busses, but I have heard over the years
that they are working on a system that would give priority to busses at
traffic signals.

It seems only to be talk, however, as I have never heard or seen anything
like that in actual practice.

London buses were for donkeys' years fitted with transponders that the
signal loops pick up and could give priority to an approaching bus by
extending the green phase or cutting short the red period. Didn't help
much when there was another similarly equipped bus approaching on the
other arm of the junction though, nor was it capable of distinguishing
between a bus running late and one running early, so a bit crude. The
system was getting long in the tooth and other cleverer systems were
in development by the early 2000's.

Peter

On 23 Nov, 14:33, Peter Heather wrote:
London buses were for donkeys' years fitted with transponders that the
signal loops pick up and could give priority to an approaching bus by
extending the green phase or cutting short the red period. Didn't help
much when there was another similarly equipped bus approaching on the
other arm of the junction though, nor was it capable of distinguishing
between a bus running late and one running early, so a bit crude. The
system was getting long in the tooth and other cleverer systems were
in development by the early 2000's.

No, it still seems to be the current preffered method, although I'm
guessing the technology's changed:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-priority.pdf

U

In article ,
(John Rowland) wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

I've seen bus overtaking lanes installed in a few places, including in
Milton Keynes, bizarrely with one of them being installed where there
is no actual bus route! (Presumably for future expansion as the road
works were being done anyway). However I've not seen an
overtake-and-turn-right, despite there being *loads* of places in
London where this would be easy to implement and very useful.

There is one in Bloomsbury Street approximately opposite Bedford
Avenue. From here on the bus lane is on the right side, ready for
the turn into New Oxford Street. I think it used to work okay
before the bendies, but bendies usually end up stretching across
all three lanes here.

I can vouch for the latter statement having used Bloomsbury St on my bike
before and after bendification. The bus lane is about the most useless to
cycles I know.

However, I then found the avoiding cycle route from Gt Russell St via
Coptic St & Streatham St which is on cycle maps but unsignposted on the
ground. It also has no dropped kerb onto Bloomsbury St, somewhat limiting
its usefulness as a cycle facility.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:09:43 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

The system is called "extended green" and keeps the lights from
changing in the face of an approaching bus. There's no visible
indication a set of lights has it.

Does anyone tell the bus drivers? It'd save them feeling compelled to
accelerate towards the green to make sure they get through.

How prevalent is it?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.