On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:01:03 +0000, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote:

Euston used to have, on the Solari:

1025 NORTHAMPTON
Watford Junction
...
Wolverton
Northampton
(continuing on to Rugby, Coventry,
Birmingham International, and Birmingham New Street)

with the last bit being in smaller type and a different colour.

Will be interesting to see what is displayed when these services are
back next week, and if it causes any confusion.

It is notable, though, that currently the through services are only
advertised as "Northampton" in most places, including on the side of
the train and on the PIS displays at MKC. However, at Euston they
seem to list all stations (which does confuse people - I've a few
times seen people on the 1849 slow who actually wanted a VT but were
looking for "Birmingham New St" rather than "Wolverhampton" on the
PIS).

At MKC they announce either the full lot, or "to Wolverton and
Northampton. This train then continues to...", probably depending on
the mood the regular announcer is in.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:21:16 -0800 (PST), Rupert Candy
wrote:

On Dec 7, 10:09*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Ian Jelf wrote





You get this on the ECML too, with slow trains from Cambridge being
advertised as going to Finsbury Park and so on.
It also happens on the Central Line, with trains leaving Woodford for
Central London via Hainault being advertise as for "Hainault", until
they get to Roding Valley, when they suddenly become destined for
Ealing
Broadway (or wherever).
It is a bit weird, but i think it's a good idea.
As good as any, yes. * There's no ideal solution in these situations
and
each one will have pros and cons.

And if "it's lying" is really a common reaction, then change to
"Hainault & beyond" "Finsbury Park & beyond" and so forth which are
"true" but avoid providing a final but confusing destination.

Don't they do something like this at Heathrow T123 - "Cockfosters via
Central London"

Yes.

Amusingly, for a while after T5 opened, it said "Cockfosters via Train
to Central London". I have a photo somewhere...

The same applies to the slow trains from Pad to Oxford which usually
show terminating at Radley .

'Slow' trains from Southampton Central to Waterloo were always (*)
shown on the departure screens at So'ton as terminating at Surbiton.

Rgds

M

(*) - This was mid to late eighties - I think that these days,
anything terminating at Waterloo is advertised as such, be it slow,
fast, or something in between...

"M J Forbes" wrote in message
...
The same applies to the slow trains from Pad to Oxford which usually
show terminating at Radley .

'Slow' trains from Southampton Central to Waterloo were always (*)
shown on the departure screens at So'ton as terminating at Surbiton.

(*) - This was mid to late eighties - I think that these days,
anything terminating at Waterloo is advertised as such, be it slow,
fast, or something in between...

It has been changing on and off for a few years. The xx55 stoppers come from
Poole under the Dec 2007 timetable, [replacing the Wareham - Brockenhurst
shuttle] and are advertised as Farnborough trains until Southampton, at
Southampton they were originally shown as Farnborough, but for the last 6
months or so have again become Waterloo 'stopping service'. This is clearly
show on the VDU listings with 'stopping service' inverse highlighted. It is
also included in the auto announcements, the three line PIS displays, and
the train side displays.

Another precaution is that the xx55s are planned to use P2, the following
xx00s which overtake at Eastleigh uses P1. The down equivalents to Poole
are not overtaken until Southampton, and appropriate announcements are made
during the 15 minute stand in P3.

Paul

Thank you to everybody who posted here.

As a result of your advice, I bought boundary zone 6 to Reading
tickets on subsequent trips to Reading, and rode the fast train. This
was accepted throughout.

Today, I had to go to Bedford.

So naturally I bought a boundary zone 6 return to Bedford from St
Pancras, and boarded the train. With my senior railcard, it cost
£7.90.

I boarded the train, the 1300 from St Pancras to Kettering.

The inspectors came round, and I showed them my ticket. They asked to
see my ticket to the boundary of zone 6, so I showed them my freedom
pass.

They said it was not valid on this train and they would send a second
man to colect an excess fare.

The second man duly arrived and demanded some £24 for a single fare to
Bedford.

I said that was out of all proportion to the original fare which I had
bought in good faitrh. The ticket clerk at St Pancras had known I was
over 60, since I had discussed the renewal of my serior railcard with
her.

I said I would not pay but offered them my name and address. They
took my business card with this information.

A third, yet more senior, official was summoned. He gave his name as
Clive and refused to give his last name.

He asked to see my tickets. I showed him, both outward and return
halves. He asked to see my Freedom Pass. Foolishly, I passed it to
him. He then announced that he was retaining my freedom pass as
evidience in a prosecution for fraudulent travel.

He proceeded to recite to me, word for word, the standard police
caution for arrestable offences. I opinted out that he was not a
police officer. He said he never claimed to be.

He asked questions and noted these in a police-style notebook. Many
of these questions were of no relevance. Despite his refusal to give
his last name, he demanded my full first names. I refused, giving
only my initials.

He took my freedom pass, the photocard accompanying my freedom pass,
and all my tickets. Had I been impoversihed, this would have stranded
me in Bedford without any means of return, even though the return half
of the ticket would (on subsequent enquiry) have been perfectly valid
on the slow trains.

He gave me a receipt to show to exit the gates at Bedford, like a
criminal.

Now:
If my freedom pass were not valid on the service I boarded, he has no
jurisdiction over it and should not have taken it.
If it were valid, he should have honoured it.

In either circumstance, he caused me unnecessary expense in getting
back to London (I got a lift to Milton Keynes and paid £19+ for a
single; I felt too afraid to take the train back from Bedford); I had
to buy a daily bus ticket to substitute for my Freedom Pass; I shall
have to buy another tomorrow. Because of the delay, I had to take a
£18 taxi to my evening engagement in London.

I am furious. If my ticket was not valid, it is an innocent mistake.
What is the difference between Reading and Bedford? There are fast
and slow trains on both lines. I am threatened with prosecution; I
have no Freedom Pass and my movement around London is limited.

It is a miracle that I kept my temper during these transactions; I
have a disability that renders keeping my temper very difficult. That
same disability stops me from shrugging this off.

I could see them gloating. They really enjoyed this. There were, I
think, more inspectors than carriages in the train. The police
caution was a nice touch of intimidation. The first inspector said
that the non-validity of freedom passes was 'clearly stated'. He did
not, and could not, say where.

I appreciate the contributions of members of this newsgroup. I am
devastated by these events.

And it was my birthday.







On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:32:39 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

Took the slow train from Paddington to Reading and back today (thus
saving money by using Freedom Pass to maximum extent).

On the way back, the train information display in the main hall at
Reading showed the train terminating at Ealing Broadway, as did the
dot matrix indicators on the platforms.

On a different display screen, which I almost missed, was the
information that all such trains are shown as terminating at Ealing
Broadway, but "of course" (in the words of the second display panel)
they run to Paddington.

Couldn't they have said that in the first place? If I hadn't seen the
second display panel, I'd have got out at Ealing and taken the tube.
Is there a reason for any of this?

Just curious.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:28 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

I said that was out of all proportion to the original fare which I had
bought in good faitrh. The ticket clerk at St Pancras had known I was
over 60, since I had discussed the renewal of my serior railcard with
her.

It seems, unfortunately, that they were right that it was not valid:-

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...n/freedom.html

This is a hang-over from the days when nothing to do with NSE was
valid on any IC TOC (ISTR this even included Network Cards?). Much of
this has been relaxed now, but not all of it.

However, whenever I have bought Boundary Zone tickets, the booking
clerk has always asked me to show them the ticket I'm extending,
presumably to check validity - did they not do this in this instance?

This doesn't excuse the heavy-handedness, however, which appears every
time it comes up to be applied to inappropriate (easy?) targets and
not to those who deliberately avoid their fare.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mar 4, 6:40*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:28 +0000, pedan3 wrote:
I said that was out of all proportion to the original fare which I had
bought in good faitrh. *The ticket clerk at St Pancras had known I was
over 60, since I had discussed the renewal of my serior railcard with
her.

It seems, unfortunately, that they were right that it was not valid:-

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...n/freedom.html

This is a hang-over from the days when nothing to do with NSE was
valid on any IC TOC (ISTR this even included Network Cards?). *Much of
this has been relaxed now, but not all of it.

However, whenever I have bought Boundary Zone tickets, the booking
clerk has always asked me to show them the ticket I'm extending,
presumably to check validity - did they not do this in this instance?

This doesn't excuse the heavy-handedness, however, which appears every
time it comes up to be applied to inappropriate (easy?) targets and
not to those who deliberately avoid their fare.

Absolutely. The scumbag in question should be boiled alive, as should
anyone who defends him.

Seriously, what kind of pathologically insane, inhuman nutjob would
act as described above?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 4 Mar, 10:08, wrote:
On Mar 4, 6:40*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:





On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:28 +0000, pedan3 wrote:
I said that was out of all proportion to the original fare which I had
bought in good faitrh. *The ticket clerk at St Pancras had known I was
over 60, since I had discussed the renewal of my serior railcard with
her.

It seems, unfortunately, that they were right that it was not valid:-

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...n/freedom.html

This is a hang-over from the days when nothing to do with NSE was
valid on any IC TOC (ISTR this even included Network Cards?). *Much of
this has been relaxed now, but not all of it.

However, whenever I have bought Boundary Zone tickets, the booking
clerk has always asked me to show them the ticket I'm extending,
presumably to check validity - did they not do this in this instance?

This doesn't excuse the heavy-handedness, however, which appears every
time it comes up to be applied to inappropriate (easy?) targets and
not to those who deliberately avoid their fare.

Absolutely. The scumbag in question should be boiled alive, as should
anyone who defends him.

Seriously, what kind of pathologically insane, inhuman nutjob would
act as described above?

One has to wonder if such people are in the pay of the road lobby.

Roll on the decriminalisation of rail travel when, instead of a
minefield of complicated rules, understaffed ticket offices and an
assumption that passengers are cheating scumbags, people can just pay
a reasonable price and travel without stress.

In message , pedan3
writes

He asked to see my tickets. I showed him, both outward and return
halves. He asked to see my Freedom Pass. Foolishly, I passed it to
him. He then announced that he was retaining my freedom pass as
evidience in a prosecution for fraudulent travel.

Quite apart from the outrageously heavy-handed approach, I very much
doubt that taking your freedom pass was legal.

Unlike a paid-for ticket, it is not the property of the TOC - it is an
entitlement paid for by the borough in which you live and, physically,
it is the property of TfL, as it says on the pass.

Although you should have paid the penalty fare, I'd kick-up a hell of a
fuss about the way you were dealt with, and about the confiscation of
your freedom pass. The freedom pass helpline (020 7934 9633) may be able
to advise you on the legality of the inspector's action.
--
Paul Terry

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:28 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

I said that was out of all proportion to the original fare which I had
bought in good faitrh. The ticket clerk at St Pancras had known I was
over 60, since I had discussed the renewal of my serior railcard with
her.

It seems, unfortunately, that they were right that it was not valid:-

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...n/freedom.html

This is a hang-over from the days when nothing to do with NSE was
valid on any IC TOC (ISTR this even included Network Cards?). Much of
this has been relaxed now, but not all of it.

However, whenever I have bought Boundary Zone tickets, the booking
clerk has always asked me to show them the ticket I'm extending,
presumably to check validity - did they not do this in this instance?

This doesn't excuse the heavy-handedness, however, which appears every
time it comes up to be applied to inappropriate (easy?) targets and
not to those who deliberately avoid their fare.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Now this has happened, I have had a closer look at the little leaflet
provided with my Freedom Pass, and it does indeed exclude some TOCS,
including on my copy First Great Western, so clearly the list can change, so
if you do not have the Internet, you are absolutely at the mercy of the
ticket office! I have a feeling when I applied for a boundary zone extension
on the East Midlands from SE London the clerk just issued a ticket without
comment. I was surprised at how little the ticket price differed from my
wife's but, as we were going to Sheffield, it was never going to be very
much, so I didn't go back and query it. Although the TO clerk certainly
didn't point out the regulation, happily she did apply them correctly.

The PR angle of this incident is appalling and, it is quite correct that the
"freedom pass remains the property of Transport for London and is not
transferable. It may only be used by the holder whose name appears on the
front and may not be used by anyone". It does also say that the "freedom
pass is not valid if illegible, damaged or altered. Ticket checking staff
may withdraw any pass which appears to be invalid." but I think "Clive"
would be hard put to justify his actions on these grounds.

MaxB