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#1
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Waterloo gateline
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote:
[waterloo] When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City? You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. I'd also say with confidence that it is impossible to gate Waterloo W&C safely anyway. -- Paul C |
#2
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Waterloo gateline
On 13 Dec, 12:20, Paul Corfield wrote:
You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. * There's ungated access to all other lines, or is that not a worry? U |
#3
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Waterloo gateline
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote: [waterloo] When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City? You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway. |
#4
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Waterloo gateline
On 13 Dec, 13:52, wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote: On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote: [waterloo] When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City? You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway. The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a hermetically sealed bubble. |
#5
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Waterloo gateline
"Mizter T" wrote ...
You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway. The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a hermetically sealed bubble. You can enter via the Finsbury Park - Moorgate link, too, and I'm sure there are others. But so long as one end or the other is gated, 99.9% of journeys will be monitored at some point. Plus it's only a question of time before DLR is under pressure to improve security, especially once the six-car trains get moving. -- Andrew |
#6
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Waterloo gateline
On 13 Dec, 14:46, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote ... You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no intermediate stops. So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway. The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a hermetically sealed bubble. You can enter via the Finsbury Park - Moorgate link, too, and I'm sure there are others. But so long as one end or the other is gated, 99.9% of journeys will be monitored at some point. There are many others but I'm not going to start making a list of them! Agree in essence about the point re one or other end of the journey being gated, but of course there are numerous journeys where neither end is gated - again I've no intention of making a list of them! As Paul C says downthread, the system is permeable and this will always be the case - gates help but they are not a solution to fare evasion in and of themselves. Plus it's only a question of time before DLR is under pressure to improve security, especially once the six-car trains get moving. By security I take it you mean fare checking (or 'revenue inspection' - but I dislike that phrase because I think it's very narrow) - not quite the same thing in my mind but of course they overlap. Interesting thought - I hadn't considered the difference six car trains (or three car - depending on how you look at it!) might make to checking tickets. Most DLR stations simply ain't set up to accomodate tickets gates, so I dare say that if there is deemed to be an issue then teams of roving inspectors would fit the bill - I don't think I've ever come across such a thing on a DLR train actually, though I have seen ticket checking teams at stations a few times. |
#7
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Waterloo gateline
Mizter T wrote:
By security I take it you mean fare checking (or 'revenue inspection' - but I dislike that phrase because I think it's very narrow) - not quite the same thing in my mind but of course they overlap. Interesting thought - I hadn't considered the difference six car trains (or three car - depending on how you look at it!) might make to checking tickets. Most DLR stations simply ain't set up to accomodate tickets gates, so I dare say that if there is deemed to be an issue then teams of roving inspectors would fit the bill - I don't think I've ever come across such a thing on a DLR train actually, though I have seen ticket checking teams at stations a few times. I have a few times on the Stratford branch. Perhaps that's also because Stratford is a nightmare for knowing how to use Oyster correctly when interchanging (especially from tickets). |
#8
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Waterloo gateline
On 13 Dec, 15:58, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: Mizter T wrote: By security I take it you mean fare checking (or 'revenue inspection' - but I dislike that phrase because I think it's very narrow) - not quite the same thing in my mind but of course they overlap. Interesting thought - I hadn't considered the difference six car trains (or three car - depending on how you look at it!) might make to checking tickets. Most DLR stations simply ain't set up to accomodate tickets gates, so I dare say that if there is deemed to be an issue then teams of roving inspectors would fit the bill - I don't think I've ever come across such a thing on a DLR train actually, though I have seen ticket checking teams at stations a few times. I have a few times on the Stratford branch. Perhaps that's also because Stratford is a nightmare for knowing how to use Oyster correctly when interchanging (especially from tickets). IME there isn't really an issue here - at least there isn't a technical issue, the issue is with regards to people getting unneccesarily worried about it which is understandable as there isn't any guidance. Touching on Oyster interchange validators at Stratford or similar locations isn't necessary if one is using PAYG from point A (e.g. Pudding Mill Lane on the DLR) to point B (e.g. Leyton on the Central line) as one touches-in and out at the start/end of that journey. However if one does touch on an interchange validator it doesn't matter - all that happens is that the journey would then be extended from Stratford to Leyton when one touched-out at the latter. In other words one does not have to use the interchange validators whatsoever if one is merely interchanging there as part of an overall PAYG journey, but nothing bad happens if one does. (It's worth noting that these interchange validators - i.e. within gated stations - are set up differently from those in use elsewhere at ungated stations on the DLR and indeed at a number of LU, LO and National Rail stations - the latter are set up as entry & exit validators, and once you've touched on these the system will regard your journey as either having started or finished.) Many (inc. Paul C) have said that better information should be provided - I suspect the basic problem with providing this information is that it might assist people in working out the potential loopholes that are inherent with interchange validators, something I've hinted at in the past though I note one contributor to this ng recently laid it out in a straightforward manner. In other words spelling out exactly how they work will assist people to abuse the system. |
#9
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Waterloo gateline
"Mizter T" wrote ...
Plus it's only a question of time before DLR is under pressure to improve security, especially once the six-car trains get moving. By security I take it you mean fare checking (or 'revenue inspection' - but I dislike that phrase because I think it's very narrow) - not quite the same thing in my mind but of course they overlap. Interesting thought - I hadn't considered the difference six car trains (or three car - depending on how you look at it!) might make to checking tickets. Most DLR stations simply ain't set up to accomodate tickets gates, so I dare say that if there is deemed to be an issue then teams of roving inspectors would fit the bill - I don't think I've ever come across such a thing on a DLR train actually, though I have seen ticket checking teams at stations a few times. In the early days (2 car trains), I rarely travelled without the 'nondriver' inspecting my ticket; this pretty much died out when they went 4-car. -- Andrew |
#10
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Waterloo gateline
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:02:00 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote: The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line offers ungated access to the LU network So, last time I checked, did Kensington Olympia. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
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