On 14 Jan 2009 11:54:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Mortimer wrote

A petrol station near me caught fire a year last January and was
totally
burnt out. It took until November before the dilapidated building and

burnt-out cars on the forecourt were cleared away. Apparently if the
owner
wants to rebuild it, he has to seek new planning permission, even
though he
is rebuilding what was there previously. I'm not sure whether that
was a
special case or whether it's always true that a building which is
rebuilt
after demolition following a fire or other disaster needs a new
planning
application.

An interesting point.

Since the rebuild is hardly likely to be truly identical, planning
permission would seem required and of course the previous permission
may have included a time limit which has now expired. Some demolition
would also be needed and ISTR that demolition now requres permission
after various buildings were demolished lest they might be listed for
preservation.

If you're thinking about the same building as I am then that was in
Scotland where demolition is not "permitted development" except in
urgent circumstances.
AFAICT planning permission is still not generally required in England,
although other requirements apply :-
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315297637.html

Charles Ellson set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

On 14 Jan 2009 11:54:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Mortimer wrote

A petrol station near me caught fire a year last January and was
totally
burnt out. It took until November before the dilapidated building and

burnt-out cars on the forecourt were cleared away. Apparently if the
owner
wants to rebuild it, he has to seek new planning permission, even
though he
is rebuilding what was there previously. I'm not sure whether that
was a
special case or whether it's always true that a building which is
rebuilt
after demolition following a fire or other disaster needs a new
planning
application.

An interesting point.

Since the rebuild is hardly likely to be truly identical, planning
permission would seem required and of course the previous permission
may have included a time limit which has now expired. Some demolition
would also be needed and ISTR that demolition now requres permission
after various buildings were demolished lest they might be listed for
preservation.

If you're thinking about the same building as I am then that was in
Scotland where demolition is not "permitted development" except in
urgent circumstances.
AFAICT planning permission is still not generally required in England,
although other requirements apply :-
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315297637.html

It's possible that some aspects of the original construction were legal at
the time but are no longer so. (E.g. use of asbestos?) Compliance with the
current issue of building regulations will require some changes to the
original design. So it's a new design. So new planning permission is
required QED.
--
ξ Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Charles
Ellson gently breathed:
On 14 Jan 2009 11:54:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:
Mortimer wrote

[rebuilding a petrol station after a fire requiring planning permission]

An interesting point.

Since the rebuild is hardly likely to be truly identical, planning
permission would seem required and of course the previous permission
may have included a time limit which has now expired. Some demolition
would also be needed and ISTR that demolition now requres permission
after various buildings were demolished lest they might be listed for
preservation.

I understand that with domestic buildings, you can build without
permission where there already was a building (though in places like
national parks or conservation areas I believe this doesn't apply),
provided the new building is the same size as the old one. So you can
buy a ruined farmhouse and rebuild it or build a new one of the same
size. Industrial buildings or buildings that store dangerous chemicals
(like petrol) are almost certainly a different case though.

If you're thinking about the same building as I am then that was in
Scotland where demolition is not "permitted development" except in
urgent circumstances.

Dumbarton West Station by any chance?

--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:54:55 +0000, Pyromancer
wrote:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Charles
Ellson gently breathed:
On 14 Jan 2009 11:54:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:
Mortimer wrote

[rebuilding a petrol station after a fire requiring planning permission]

An interesting point.

Since the rebuild is hardly likely to be truly identical, planning
permission would seem required and of course the previous permission
may have included a time limit which has now expired. Some demolition
would also be needed and ISTR that demolition now requres permission
after various buildings were demolished lest they might be listed for
preservation.

I understand that with domestic buildings, you can build without
permission where there already was a building (though in places like
national parks or conservation areas I believe this doesn't apply),
provided the new building is the same size as the old one.

Hmmm...
(9) Except as provided in Part 31, Schedule 2 does not permit any
development which requires or involves the demolition of a building,
but in this paragraph "building" does not include part of a building.
[Town and Country Planning Act 1995]

Part 31 does not seem to exclude the involvement of the Planning
Authority except in cases of urgency and in s.1 :-
"erection", in relation to buildings as defined in this article,
includes extension, alteration, or re-erection;

Even where the demolition is "permitted development" it looks like
there is still a general requirement of giving notice to the planning
authority so that they can take action if a particular restriction is
known to them.

So you can
buy a ruined farmhouse and rebuild it or build a new one of the same
size. Industrial buildings or buildings that store dangerous chemicals
(like petrol) are almost certainly a different case though.

If you're thinking about the same building as I am then that was in
Scotland where demolition is not "permitted development" except in
urgent circumstances.

Dumbarton West Station by any chance?

No it was some over-rich so-and-so (not an Egyptian grocer) who
thought he could get around the planning system by knocking down his
"big house" but IIRC landing up in court because of the demolition. It
is possible that the building might have been listed.
Found it! It was B-listed but the Sheriff also blamed the planning
authority for messing up procedures :-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle860512.ece