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Old March 13th 09, 08:41 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

wrote:
On 13 Mar, 14:16, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
writes

On 13 Mar, 13:31, Davide Trani wrote:
2for1 offers are valid only with rail tickets or paper travelcards
(with rail sign on it)
This isn't true, they are available for use with any travelcard.
However, you do need the record card to prove that you've got a
travelcard on your oystercard. (I don't know what the situation is
with weekly travelcards on Oyster and record cards).

According to the 2for1 website:

http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/faq.aspx

"The 2for1 London Attractions partners DO NOT recognise Oyster Cards as
being valid accompanying rail tickets."

I've never had a problem with my annual travelcard on Oyster, but that
has the associated Gold Card.

I suspect the Gold Card makes a big difference. Just presenting an
Oyster would not be proof that it is valid for the day concerned (unless
the attraction concerned had Oyster readers).


Yes, but that is mentioning Oyster used as a rail ticket, not as a
travelcard. That's why I asked about the record card for weekly
tickets, you used to always get one of these when you bought a weekly
on Oyster, but I don't know if they stopped. The site doesn't realise
that Travelcards on oyster ARE a national rail ticket, (unlike PAYG
most of the time). It would strike me as a bit odd if you could buy a
1 day travelcard from a LU ticket on paper and it would be valid, but
a 7 day one from the same spot is invalid because it is on Oyster
(again assuming that there is a record of the travelcard purchase),
after all the prices are same whether bought from LU or National Rail.


The point that you're missing is that the 2-for-1 offers are a promotion
partly funded by the National Rail TOCs to encourage people to travel to
London on their trains. It's a loophole in that scheme that allows
someone who travelled to London by some other means, e.g. by air, to
obtain the 2-for-1 deals by going to a National Rail ticket office in
London and buying a travelcard. To be valid for 2-for-1, the travelcard
must indicate that it was bought from a National Rail TOC.

Related to this, can anyone who has seen an LU paper 1-day travelcard
recently please tell me whether it now carries the National Rail
double-arrow logo as well as the LU Roundel? I've seen photos of two
designs, one headed:

[LU roundel] [NR double-arrow] Day Travelcard

and the other one headed with a continuous repeating pattern:

....on Underground [LU roundel] London Underground [LU Roundel]
London Undergr...

Which is the current one?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

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Old March 13th 09, 09:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

On Mar 13, 9:41*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
On 13 Mar, 14:16, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
writes


On 13 Mar, 13:31, Davide Trani wrote:
2for1 offers are valid only with rail tickets or paper travelcards
(with rail sign on it)
This isn't true, they are available for use with any travelcard.
However, you do need the record card to prove that you've got a
travelcard on your oystercard. (I don't know what the situation is
with weekly travelcards on Oyster and record cards).
According to the 2for1 website:


http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/faq.aspx


"The 2for1 London Attractions partners DO NOT recognise Oyster Cards as
being valid accompanying rail tickets."


I've never had a problem with my annual travelcard on Oyster, but that
has the associated Gold Card.
I suspect the Gold Card makes a big difference. Just presenting an
Oyster would not be proof that it is valid for the day concerned (unless
the attraction concerned had Oyster readers).


Yes, but that is mentioning Oyster used as a rail ticket, not as a
travelcard. That's why I asked about the record card for weekly
tickets, you used to always get one of these when you bought a weekly
on Oyster, but I don't know if they stopped. The site doesn't realise
that Travelcards on oyster ARE a national rail ticket, (unlike PAYG
most of the time). It would strike me as a bit odd if you could buy a
1 day travelcard from a LU ticket on paper and it would be valid, but
a 7 day one from the same spot is invalid because it is on Oyster
(again assuming that there is a record of the travelcard purchase),
after all the prices are same whether bought from LU or National Rail.


The point that you're missing is that the 2-for-1 offers are a promotion
partly funded by the National Rail TOCs to encourage people to travel to
London on their trains. *It's a loophole in that scheme that allows
someone who travelled to London by some other means, e.g. by air, to
obtain the 2-for-1 deals by going to a National Rail ticket office in
London and buying a travelcard. *To be valid for 2-for-1, the travelcard
must indicate that it was bought from a National Rail TOC.


Actually, I'm not missing that point at all. All travelcard revenue is
shared exactly the same way, a share to the issuer (be it LU, TOC,
newsagent), and shares to LU and ATOC. If you read the FAQ, it doesn't
say that it has to be issued by NR.

"Can I use Underground/tube only tickets and/or London Bus only
tickets?

No, except as shown below.

However if your travel ticket has an element of National Rail/train
company travel included, e.g. any type of 'paper' Travelcard, train/
tube inclusive ticket, then the answer is Yes. By way of recognition
if your travel ticket shows the Double-Arrow (or 'crows-foot')
National Rail logo you're generally safe to assume it is valid. If you
are unsure in any way please ask at your local staffed National Rail
station."

The point we are arguing about is whether a Travelcard on Oyster
counts, if you have a paper counterpart as well (different from PAYG
which definitely isn't valid). Certainly, I've never had any problem
using 2 for 1 with my LU issued Oyster Gold Card, which comes with a
paper part. It doesn't say that Travelcards on Oyster are not valid,
they are just not included in the list.
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Old March 14th 09, 01:10 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

"Richard J." wrote in news:BqAul.126119
:

Related to this, can anyone who has seen an LU paper 1-day travelcard
recently please tell me whether it now carries the National Rail
double-arrow logo as well as the LU Roundel? I've seen photos of two
designs, one headed:

[LU roundel] [NR double-arrow] Day Travelcard

and the other one headed with a continuous repeating pattern:

...on Underground [LU roundel] London Underground [LU Roundel]
London Undergr...

Which is the current one?


I believe the former was purchased at a ticket office/Ticket Stop and the
latter at a Tube station ticket machine.
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Old March 14th 09, 10:17 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

On Mar 13, 11:32*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
The point we are arguing about is whether a Travelcard on Oyster
counts, if you have a paper counterpart as well (different from PAYG
which definitely isn't valid). Certainly, I've never had any problem
using 2 for 1 with my LU issued Oyster Gold Card, which comes with a
paper part. It doesn't say that Travelcards on Oyster are not valid,
they are just not included in the list.


Well, I think what it says is pretty clear:
"Can I use an Oyster card? No, except as shown below."

And "below" is (a) Freedom Pass (which is not branded as Oyster anyway)
and (b) "2FOR1 Oyster card offers", which have now ceased. *I'm pleased
for you that you've managed to persuade the attractions to accept your
Oyster card and the receipt thingy as a valid rail ticket, but in view
of what the FAQ says I wouldn't be confident enough to recommend to
anyone else that they try it.


Did you actually bother to read the section of the FAQ that I quoted
as well. This clearly states that an underground ticket is valid if it
includes National Rail validity. An LU issued Annual Gold Card is such
as ticket and as it comes with a paper
counterpart, with the prerequiste Double Arrow logo, meets the
requirements.

and from the first FAQ

"By way of recognition most travel tickets show the Double-Arrow (or
'crows-foot') National Rail logo, then you're safe to assume it is
valid. If you are unsure in any way please ask at your local staffed
National Rail station."


The actual terms and conditions (section 4) don't mention Oyster at
all. http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/terms-and-conditions.aspx. I
think that the Oyster restriction only came in last year and before
then, Oyster wasn't even mentioned. It will be interesting to see what
happens next year, once Oyster PAYG is available on all National Rail
within the zones.


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Old March 14th 09, 02:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

On Mar 14, 2:10*am, James Farrar wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in news:BqAul.126119
:

Related to this, can anyone who has seen an LU paper 1-day travelcard
recently please tell me whether it now carries the National Rail
double-arrow logo as well as the LU Roundel? *I've seen photos of two
designs, one headed:


[LU roundel] [NR double-arrow] Day Travelcard


and the other one headed with a continuous repeating pattern:


...on Underground *[LU roundel] *London Underground *[LU Roundel]
London Undergr...


Which is the current one?


I believe the former was purchased at a ticket office/Ticket Stop and the
latter at a Tube station ticket machine.


For variety, I have one from 9 February which has, along the top, "[LU
roundel] Docklands Light Railway" three times.

It has no NR logo anywhere.

But I think the difference is more likely to be based on whether it
comes from a machine, which would have only one kind of ticket blank.
The logo isn't likely to be printed at the time of purchase, so the
question is whether LU ticket offices have different ticket blanks for
travelcards.
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Old March 14th 09, 02:34 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

In message
, at
08:12:01 on Sat, 14 Mar 2009, MIG
remarked:
The logo isn't likely to be printed at the time of purchase, so the
question is whether LU ticket offices have different ticket blanks for
travelcards.


Do you mean the self-service machines at LU ticket offices? (Do these
even sell weekly travelcards?)

I though the whole point of this discussion was that if you bought a
Travelcard at an LU ticket window they forced you to accept it on an
Oyster card.
--
Roland Perry
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Old March 14th 09, 03:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

On Mar 14, 3:34*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
08:12:01 on Sat, 14 Mar 2009, MIG
remarked:

The logo isn't likely to be printed at the time of purchase, so the
question is whether LU ticket offices have different ticket blanks for
travelcards.


Do you mean the self-service machines at LU ticket offices? (Do these
even sell weekly travelcards?)

I though the whole point of this discussion was that if you bought a
Travelcard at an LU ticket window they forced you to accept it on an
Oyster card.


This bit was about the design of one-day travelcards, which they won't
put on Oyster.

I am assuming (haven't tried lately) that LU wouldn't refuse to sell a
one-day travelcard to someone who needed to use NR, and so would have
to sell a paper ticket, as they would to extend a paper travelcard etc.
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Old March 14th 09, 03:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Where to buy paper travelcard

On Mar 14, 3:12*pm, MIG wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:10*am, James Farrar wrote:





"Richard J." wrote in news:BqAul.126119
:


Related to this, can anyone who has seen an LU paper 1-day travelcard
recently please tell me whether it now carries the National Rail
double-arrow logo as well as the LU Roundel? *I've seen photos of two
designs, one headed:


[LU roundel] [NR double-arrow] Day Travelcard


and the other one headed with a continuous repeating pattern:


...on Underground *[LU roundel] *London Underground *[LU Roundel]
London Undergr...


Which is the current one?


I believe the former was purchased at a ticket office/Ticket Stop and the
latter at a Tube station ticket machine.


For variety, I have one from 9 February which has, along the top, "[LU
roundel] Docklands Light Railway" three times.

It has no NR logo anywhere.

But I think the difference is more likely to be based on whether it
comes from a machine, which would have only one kind of ticket blank.
The logo isn't likely to be printed at the time of purchase, so the
question is whether LU ticket offices have different ticket blanks for
travelcards.


The logos did use to be printed on ticket machine travelcards at the
time of issue, as the blanks were the same regardless of the ticket
type. It was in the same ink as the rest of the ticket information, so
grey rather than the white (for NR) or red/pink (for LU) when printed
as part of the paper ticket.

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